Leo Thom is a Marketing and Sales Analytics Intern at CampusCred.


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2011-01-29 13:16:34   I deleted the page you created for CampusCred because it appears to be spam. There is no mailing address and the identity of the site owner is obscured through proxy domain registration. The site uses campus and ASUCD trademarks without authorization. It doesn't appear to be a local business, but rather a business that that has a single local affiliate (i.e. you). You appear to be using the Davis Wiki not for its purpose of documenting Davis, but instead to promote business. Davis Wiki is a project of a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that is prohibited from promoting businesses.

If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message. —WilliamLewis

2011-01-29 13:18:34   I would appreciate it if you would stop using the Davis Wiki to illegally promote your business. —WilliamLewis

2011-01-29 13:36:35   CampusCred doesn't appear to exist in Davis, so its presence here is unwelcome. It's just a website that has ripped off campus trademarks and happens to offer discounts for Davis businesses. If it's not in Davis, it doesn't belong on Davis Wiki.

Even if we concede that CampusCred is a Davis business, there is the issue of promotion. You use the term "our page." Presumably you mean "our" in the sense that it belongs to CampusCred. It does not. Davis Wiki exists to document Davis and everything on it belongs to the community. You cannot promote a business on DavisWiki. What are your motivations for creating the page? Are you here to document Davis? I've looked at your edit history and you have not edited before today. Your only edits have been messages to me and edits to the CampusCred page. Would you be here editing the Davis Wiki if your intent wasn't to promote your business? You've posted gratuitous logos and specific deals your site offers. It looks promotional to me.

Sorry, you look illegitimate and you're using Davis Wiki to send traffic to your website or build SEO. Not cool.


2011-01-29 13:52:51   I am sorry, but I don't believe you with your claim that you are sponsored by ASUCD.

  1. Your site also uses student body trademarks for two other UCs. You really got sponsorships from the student government at every campus you operate at?

  2. There is no ASUCD legislation authorizing such an agreement. I can't find any from UCB or UCSC, either.

  3. ASUCD is a 501(c)(3) non-profit. They would be prohibited from sponsoring you, just like we are prohibited from promoting you. See Lamargate for of an example of where ASUCD got in trouble for endorsing a political candidate. —WilliamLewis

2011-01-29 13:54:06   Hey Leo... I opened ["CampusCred/Talk" a talk page] for community discussion and tried to lay out some of the issues. I tried to present the issues in a straightforward manner. Part of the problem is how often companies like this pop up and then disappear after a month, abandoned by their creators. It's easy to make a website, hard to run a business. None of this is personal, and I do wish you the best. —Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards, [email protected]

2011-01-29 14:49:05   Who signed the supposed contract with ASUCD? I find it really unlikely that there is one that is actually legitimate. —EliYani

2011-01-29 14:54:12   Section 1601(A) of the ASUCD bylaws states that uses of the ASUCD logo to promote any "economic activity [...] or program" requires a "majority vote of the ASUCD Senate in the form of a Senate Resolution." Looking at the Senate resolutions for 2010-2011 and 2009-2010, I can find no resolution authorizing your use of the ASUCD logo. Can you provide the resolution authorizing your use of the ASUCD logo?

Additionally, I see you are using the UCDavis wordmark on your website. You do not appear on the list of licensees published by the university. Is this list out of date? Can you provide your agreement with the university?

Please post any documentation you have to the wiki or email it to double you elle e double you eye ess at you see davis dot edu.


2011-01-29 15:18:35   I just talked with Jack Zwald. He says there is an agreement in the University Contracts Office, but neither him nor Mark signed it. —WilliamLewis

2011-01-29 15:29:41   I talked with Jack and Joey, and neither of them signed. I also really doubt that Mark Champagne would sign. Would you mind removing the logo from your website until (which is unlikely to happen anyway), the contract is actually signed if it is? —EliYani

2011-01-29 16:45:22   As someone who is watching this from the sidelines, I don't understand why you don't just take the simple route of scanning the document with the signature and posting it on the wiki, or emailing it to WL or JW. You'd save yourself a whole lot of grief by doing so. The fact that you haven't done so yet, on the other hand, makes it seem as though something fishy is going on. I'm sure that's an impression you'd like to avoid. —CovertProfessor

2011-01-29 16:58:02   Please scan and post the agreement you have to the wiki. I'm not physically in Davis and won't be there again for several weeks. I'm not going to do a special trip this weekend just so I can see this document that I am verifying through third party means.

As for the libel claim, do you know how many times I've heard that? You're new, so you don't know this, but legal threats are usually grounds for banning. Don't do it again. If you have legitimate claims (and you don't... and you presumably haven't heard of SLAPPbacks), the wiki is not the place to deal with them.

There is ample room for skepticism here. One, you supposedly have the same agreements at all three colleges you operate out of. Two, your alleged agreement with ASUCD would be illegal in light of their 501(c)(3) non-profit status. Three, there is no evidence you went through the proper channels to get such an agreement. Mark Champaign doesn't have the authority to sign such an agreement without the consent of the Senate. Four, you lied about Zwald giving approval.

If you do indeed have an agreement, this is a scandal on the level of Lamargate. The agreement is entirely illegal and contrary to ASUCD policy. If not, well... that's interesting, too. —WilliamLewis

2011-01-29 17:31:01   Ok, thanks for the clarification. I am afraid, though, that until you are able to provide further evidence people will probably continue to be skeptical. One thing you should understand here is that those of us who edit this wiki not only care about Davis Wiki — we also care about Davis and many of its associated entities, including UC Davis and ASUCD. I imagine that is why people are concerned about the use of the logos. —CovertProfessor

2011-01-29 17:38:19   Yes, I hope so, too. Good luck with CampusCred; I hope it turns out to be beneficial for all involved. —CovertProfessor

2011-01-30 19:15:41   As made clear by Mr. Lewis, I am concerned with the breach of the ASUCD Bylaws (Chapter 16) which mandates Senate authorization (via a Senate Resolution) to use the ASUCD Logo. Regardless of the so-called signature of Mr. Champagne, Zwald, and/or Chen, the use of this logo goes against our governing codes as a non-profit.

I am equally disturbed by the website's use of the logos of two other ASUC's; Berkeley and Santa Cruz's. Trademark Infringement is srs business. —RyanMeyerhoff

2011-02-01 13:05:23   Heya Leo. Shoot me an email - rjmeyerhoff AT ucdavis.edu —RyanMeyerhoff

2011-02-01 13:07:02   Let me put this simply:

As long as you use the ASUCD logo that implies in any way that you are sponsored by ASUCD, the supposed voice of undergraduate students, I will look down upon you because what you are doing is deceptive and unethical. It's a fair complaint that belongs on any dwiki page about your company. When I was an undergraduate student, I was angry at ASUCD when they did things supposedly in my name that I found objectionable. But endorsing a specific business venture would have taken the cake. ASUCD has no business saying which businesses the students they represent do and do not support. Students support businesses through their own word of mouth and their own dollar.

Any deal you would make with ASUCD would involve money going from your checking account to ASUCD's. That is to say, you are sponsoring them, not the other way around. If you want to sponsor ASUCD, that's fine. As part of you sponsoring them, you could rightfully gain the right to use their logo in your promotional materials. However, to be ethical about it, you need to make it clear that you're the ones doing the sponsoring, not ASUCD. You could do this by doing something like "we're proud sponsors of <asucd logo>." I simply cannot fathom why your company feels the need to be deceptive and say that ASUCD is sponsoring you guys. —WilliamLewis

2011-02-01 16:19:32   Why am I getting emails from CampusCred? I know for a fact that I did not sign up for anything. —hankim

2011-02-02 15:40:37   I am assisting Leo in drafting a Senate Resolution so CampusCred can take the legal route to getting fair use of the logo. It will be up to the Senate to decide whether this is a worthy program or not. Know that appropriate measures are being conducted. —RyanMeyerhoff

2011-04-29 12:31:48   Can we try to consolidate the discussion on ["CampusCred/Talk" one page]? —TomGarberson

2011-04-29 12:34:54   I've been on this wiki since 2005. I humbly submit that it is I who understands this site better than you do. Your misuse of the talk page and your confusion over slant confirms this.

How about this? Your company has acted unethically. Do the following and I will have no issues with you.

  1. Stop using student body logos in a deceptive manner. You may have sanction, but you still use them in ways seemingly designed to cause confusion. You are not part of ASUCD. You were not created by ASUCD. Your only relationship with ASUCD is that you pay them money. Dont infer anything else.

  2. Explain who authorized your spamming of ucdavis.edu. Terminate them and pledge never to spam again. —WilliamLewis

2011-04-29 12:51:49   This is not Wikipedia. Wikis traditionally have strong opinions in their content, accumulating many different views over time. See Welcome to the Wiki/Wiki Enthusiast and Welcome to the Wiki/Business Owner for more information. —Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards, [email protected], (814) 889-8845

2011-04-29 12:52:54   Sending mass email to people who never gave you their email addresses and never asked to be contacted by you is spam. End of story. That is fact, not mere opinion. You cannot pretend otherwise. Are you refusing to acknowledge that what your company did was spam? —WilliamLewis

2011-04-29 12:54:23   You guys realize that if you conduct this conversation on a ["CampusCred/Talk" single page], other people can actually chime in in a meaningful way, unlike when it's spread across several (or more) people's user pages, right? —TomGarberson

2011-04-29 13:32:06   I see now that you've taken down the student body logos. When did this happen? —WilliamLewis