This page preserves some of the tumult surrounding the Crying Girl Con Artist as the story developed here on the Wiki.

facebook profile - background discussion

Not sure if it matters much at this point with all the info and exposure that this has gotten and since their profiles a set to private, but here is her facebook, and here is her brother's Notice his name is slightly altered. Also, her profile picture is interesting... wondering if it's from a real contest or not... I'm sure someone could find more if they wanted to waste the time to dig through their friend lists and the public profiles/look for profiles of accomplices. Also, evil or not, I would totally bang crying girl. Ok, maybe I'd have to paper bag it or tape her mouth shut so I didn't have to hear that annoying voice, but ya get the idea :P —bigpimpin

  • This is pretty interesting. You can still see and message her 20 friends. Could someone send a facebook message to each of them with a link to the articles about her crimes? Make sure it's a throwaway account, because she will probably have someone come and burglarize your house or harass you in retribution. -EdwardNiemand
    • That doesn't look like her to me, and the parents are listed as living across the country. Wiki users should be very careful at targeting unconfirmed people, especially at the advice of an anonymous DavisWiki user. I think publishing names of family members is irresponsible too unless you know for 100% sure you're correct. Doesn't look like it to me in this case. -MIK
    • Regardless of whether it's her or whether the information is available online, I think it's in poor taste to list the names of her family on the wiki. They are likely innocent, and yet they could become the targets of harassment now. —ScottMeehleib
    • It is important to use discretion and caution in a matter like this. If users start contacting friends and relatives it could have negative consequences that were not foreseen. Best to give the police time to handle this matter. —DagonJones
    • I didn't think it looked much like her either or her brother, until I noticed the brother's profile picture on facebook was also one of the pictures on his myspace. From there I was able to make the logical connection. I posted the link to thebrother because it was mentioned earlier that he was an identified accomplice, not just posting random family members here. But you guys are right that it probably is in poor taste to point people to their friends lists and could negatively effect a police investigation. I appologize, should I remove the links? —bigpimpin
      • I support removing the links. Especially the brother's because the person who previously identified him as an accomplice has since admitted that he was possibly wrong; he said that his allegations were based on similarities of "body type and size" and that he "shouldn't confirm him outright." —ScottMeehleib
        • I don't think that the facebook pages add anything new, and so there is not any major reason they should remain. However, I do think that they are in fact the pages of Crying Girl and her brother, since they have the same photo and everything. There is no reason a stranger would have such a photo up. Agreed, though, that the brother shouldn't really be included in anything if nobody has IDed him as one of the accomplices. —JoePomidor

I took the profile links down for the time being. Here's what they were:

Some more information on her:

Question: What's the best way to make sure the DPD has this information? They could absolutely use the list of facebook friends as part of an investigation. I feel weird calling them up because, well, I'm at work right now. Can someone volunteer to give them a quick phone call asking them the best way to send them this sort of information? —PhilipNeustrom

You can email any officer, and they can forward it to the ones investigating... Or you can go thru Officer Neves who is the downtown liaison. Daubert

So I took a little time this evening to try and draft out a possible new page. I'm sure many of you will have input or changes to this but basically tried to break out the current information about crying girl into a second paragraph with additional info from comments. I also went through and tried to integrate all the comments with proper timestamps. Lastly I removed the the majority of the license plate discussion. Please edit as you see fit. Try not to use the comment bar, btw. Its should go into the final page. Image references are broken at this point too.

Local Example: Crying Girl with a Train Schedule

Sightings: Downtown corners; shopping plazas (outside Nugget Market, Co-op, both Safeways, U-Mall, Save Mart, Target, the Dixon Walmart, etc.)

Seen: November 2009 (?) – Present

Scam: The "crying girl" is a particularly prolific and notorious scammer who has been victimizing people in Davis. She is a dark haired girl who has dyed her hair reddish blond who sometimes wears heavy, tear-smeared make-up. She hangs out around the downtown area or in front of grocery stores, clutching a train schedule and approaching people with one of two stories. Depending on the age and gender of her mark, she alternates between a story involving her mother stranding her in Davis and another involving her boyfriend dumping her and then stranding her in Davis. She has been known to fake crying during these encounters, often with real tears. The amount requested for "train tickets" will generally be around $40 dollars, give or take a few dollars to lend legitimacy. Reportedly, she has also begun telling people a new story wherein she purports to be homeless. She has been known be become aggressive when people make her mad and confrontations with her should be avoided.

Current Information: A wealth of information about her has been uncovered since reports of her first appeared on Daviswiki in March 2010. People claiming to have known her personally identified her as, 20 year old, Jillian "Jill" Johnson of Vacaville. A myspace photo gallery showing her name along with pictures (one of which is included below) was uncovered. Wiki users who had encountered her in person verified her identity in those photos. Other witnesses also reported a number of accomplices that she works with, two of whom have been ID'd in one of the myspace photos as well. One accomplice was identified by name, Caleb Holcomb, and is purported to be her boyfriend. The name of the second accomplice is currently not known, but a clear image of him appears in the myspace photo as well. Additional female accomplices have been reported, but not currently identified. These people typically wait in a car while she runs her scam, and when she gets into trouble, they either jump out as backup, or drive her away. Two vehicles have been cited as getaway cars, a black Chevy Tahoe with a plate number of 4GDY921 along with a red Toyota. A comment was also posted to a Davis Voice article by a person claiming to be her, stating that she was an actress/model. A Facebook account was later found, again showing her name, and included a profile picture of her from an unknown beauty pageant holding trophies. Many witnesses again, claimed that the girl in the photo was, in fact, the crying girl.

For Your Safety: If you see her roping someone in, be careful when warning the victims away. She has been known to follow whistleblowers for blocks, threatening and shouting at them. You may have a piece of concrete hurled your way if you try to take a picture of her (see below).

Everyone who has had an interaction with her should file a police report using this form (pdf). They don't need to catch her in the act, they just need reports and witnesses of the crimes to arrest her and have her convicted. So take a few minutes to report her if she conned you.

Scam Alert Flyer: If you want to help alert the community, there is a handy flyer (pdf) available for you to download and print.

Media Coverage

Some more information on her:

  • Her MySpace and a related photo gallery. While these people closely resemble the person in question, and while they also show activities that comments attributed to the person in question bragged about, it is important to note that no action should be taken against the owners of these profiles. They should remain here only for informational purposes and to assist in further investigation by both the police and davis-wikipedians, but not as a tool to cause mayhem, to spread libel or slander, or to harass.
  • Unverified- This could be her facebook page2

Experiences

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2010-03-22 06:04:33   So it would appear that I've talked to this girl... She said she was from San Diego and her mother stranded her, she needed 37 bucks for an amtrak ticket, but she already had the ticket slip which meant that she rode the train one way already. I was at an ATM at the time so I found it weird, things weren't adding up. She had just gotten off the phone and was crying as well. Funny now I see a page, Daubert

2010-03-22 07:00:55   Tried to hit me up on the corner of 3rd and F. Had a female partner with her trying to get $35.00 for train fare to San Diego saying she had just recently been kicked out her home by her live-in Boyfriend. Sad really that this is somehow becoming a lifestyle for her and that she has somehow convinced her friend to help her do it now. Hair was reddish Blonde and her friend was brunette. Both appear to be aroun16 or 17 years old. —WesOne

Yeah she had reddish blonde hair when I saw her, it was also around 3rd and F. —Daubert

2010-03-22 16:50:18   Oh No! I was at University Mall Bank of America ATM I think last month and was scammed $5 by this girl!!! She was crying (real tears I thought I saw) that "she and her boyfriend had a huge fight", she was chased out of the apartment and she needed $35 for a motel stay. I was with my kids so I didn't bother to offer any help beside the $5 :( Thanks so much for this page - this needs to go into the Enterprise and reported to the police!! —LeeY

2010-03-22 17:17:46   If one of you guys could post a better description, I would appreciate it. I only saw her once or twice in the dark. —EdwardNiemand

  • The description "dark haired girl, dyed hair reddish blond, heavy, tear-smeared make-up, aged approximately 16 to 20" above was very accurate, I recognized her immediately. Also add "smoky eye makeup" and somewhat skimpy (not too skimpy) clothing.

2010-03-22 22:46:56   She is targeting parents with kids too with her sob stories, yes - got another report from friend :( —LeeY

2010-05-17 05:30:55   So last thursday, May 13, I was stopped by someone fitting this description. She had bleached hair, lots of mascara and the same story (the one about being stranded by her mom). She was also holding a train schedule. I managed to get a picture. (She didn't like that at all. Notice the chunk of concrete in her hand? It was thrown at me a second later.) Wanted to see if this is the same girl others have been stopped by. I don't want to accuse her, but the experience was a little too similar to what I'd read on here. —JamesMadden

  • Concrete snowball fight, sounds fun. Do you recall where this took place? —EBT
    • It was at the Safeway in South Davis. — JamesMadden
    • Wow, that sounds...sort of like assault, to me. —JoePomidor

2010-05-17 06:34:43   Yeah, I ran into the Crying Girl in front of G Street Pub a few months ago. I directed her towards the Davis Cold Weather Shelter, since it was dark, and I knew that odds were slim on her getting a train out of town that late. —Flynn

2010-05-17 18:01:08   i've seen "the crying girl" on multiple occasions at the marketplace in west davis. i called the cops on her and she ran away. i can positively identify her in the picture of her. that is most definitely her. —cjoe

2010-05-18 04:31:00   That picture is definitely the Crying Girl. I've seen her in South Davis a a little more than a half dozen times starting around Novemeber and ending around February, though apparently she's showing back up. She doesn't work alone by the way, she usually has a car waiting for her, with a male driver. —TonyAhr

That level of preparedness is pretty telling about how serious this thing is, isn't it? —ebt

2010-05-18 14:41:08   I can confirm that girl in the picture is the crying girl. She conned me and my fiancee last Friday in the parking lot by fex-ex/kinkos. —ChrisDietrich

2010-05-18 17:11:21   This is the crying girl. She tried to get me to give her money in the Save Mart parking lot and when I refused she got into a big black tahoe/suburban with a guy. She was not very convincing, her bus schedule was way to old for her to actually be trying to get a current train. I hope something can be done about her, she is ridiculous and should feel horrible about what she is doing. Will the Aggie do an article about her to spread the word? —gilmore518

2010-05-18 17:18:23   she approached my girlfriend and I outside North Davis Safeway a few months ago. Glad we didn't buy the story. —patrick82

  • Yep, same with me. She made a point of asking both my boyfriend and me individually if we had any money we could give her. I found it a little suspect at the time. —JenniferCook

2010-05-18 18:22:11   I'm really surprised the DPD hasn't seemed to be involved. Sounds like this girl is a public nuisance. —jsbmeb

2010-05-18 21:32:47   Thanks for the responses people. To TonyAhr's questions on my user page, that photo was taken toward the north end of the Safeway parking lot. The time of night was about 10pm. Hopefully there's a security tape of her. She was stopping a lot of people out there. A few people have also mentioned a black or dark colored truck and a male companion. I think I actually encountered him too. In fact the truck can be seen in the background, (unfortunately it's somewhat obscured). As I was taking that picture a guy jumped out and began making threats to me. Figured he was just taking the side of a random girl. I didn't want to stir up a fight so I split as soon as I got the picture. All this could have been coincidence, but now it makes me wonder a little bit. Maybe someone can get another picture. :) As far as the Davis Police Department goes, I would love to see them get caught. Unfortunately, I think the police need to catch her in the act. In the meantime, this will hopefully get people on alert. Calling the police is definitely a very good idea if you spot her running this scam. If the police physically see her doing it, they would have a good case. —JamesMadden

  • Now that you point it out, yeah, I see the truck. Too bad the license plate isn't clearer.
    • The license portion of the photo doesn't contain enough information to extract the plate letters. But it does appear to have a yellow registration sticker on the top right. (Yeah, that should really narrow it down. ;-) ) —IDoNotExist
  • I saw the truck when she got me...the dude was trying to pull all the way through a space to the other side (where we were trying to park). He was wearing a red shirt and a red hat. He was very apologetic when he realized he was pulling through to where we were parking. —ChrisDietrich
  • JamesMadden, I gotta thank you again for risking life and limb and getting that awesome picture of her in our parking lot. I posted a facebook note about her, "Crying Girl Con Artist in Davis" with that picture and linked it to a bunch of my Davis friends' walls, so that picture is spreading fast. The more people that recognize her, the better. —TonyAhr

2010-05-19 07:53:37   By request, I have just uploaded the original file. WilliamLewis was correct about the original file size being bigger. Unfortunately, I had cropped down that photo to get a better view of the crying girl. I also resampled a bit to reduce the file size, but it didn’t change the resolution around the license plate too much. However, the original file is up and maybe people can find it useful. I should also add that I can’t confirm that the guy had any relationship with the girl. Maybe if they can be seen showing up together on a security tape, we could have some more solid evidence, but at this point the guy could have been coincidental. William was also correct about the timestamp. I did set a time on my camera at some point, so the 10:22 pm should be about right. I also wanted to make a clarification to Tony about the location. This was in the north end of the parking lot between Rite Aid and Yolo Credit Union, not the area around House of Chang or Round Table. Tony, I also liked that you posted to facebook, I think that’s a great idea! —JamesMadden

2010-05-20 02:11:01   Pump the brakes here internet detectives, John Neves (and by extension DPD) are more than aware of our crying girl! Her name is Amber, and she has been stopped by him and warned if this persists she will be arrested. Both license plates of both involved vehicles have been recorded, one is the dark Chevy with male, the other is red Toyota with female. If you have any further contact with crying girl / Amber please contact DPD post haste. If you were bilked please fill out the PDF that is linked on this page. Thank you for your time Daubert

2010-05-19 23:56:52   I have walked into the stranded neighbor twice, and have been trying to bring her down! The first time I gave her some money and then realized I had an unused Amtrak ticket in my wallet so offered her that instead which was worth a lot more (they can be exchanged for credit on another journey). She told me they wouldn't accept it, which isn't true at all which is when I realized her story did not seem truthful. I asked her what time her train left and told her it was too late for that line and that she was wrong. I took everything I gave her back and walked away and she abused me. The next time I saw her before she even opened her mouth I told her to go away. She is a scam-artist through and through. Since then I have hoped to encounter her again and take a picture - well done to whoever did. Her MO is to target young men for obvious reasons. —thomwoodroofe

2010-05-21 00:10:49   Wow. I don't think this girl knows about daviswiki. I actually ran into her again tonight! I saw her standing in the Kinko's parking lot this time. I was so dumbfounded, I parked my car, and she actually approached me again! I tried to take another picture and this time she opened my car door and tried to grab my camera. I had a tripod with me and she backed off when I grabbed it, but she got on her phone and called her friends. The nice guys at Kinko's were very helpful and were quickly on the phone to the police at this point.

Two guys ran up shortly after. One was white with dark hair and had a short, thin goatee. He maybe 5'-6", wore a red baseball cap and baggy clothes. He had a spray canister that he said was mace. Tried to spray me with it but it was either deodorant or cologne. The other guy was taller, maybe 5'-9", was either white or hispanic, and had dark curly hair under a green baseball cap. He wore baggy clothes as well. I could definitely identify them again. They both made a lot of threats but didn't want to go near Kinko's where there were witnesses. The crying girl (at least I think it was her, as she'd disappeared by this time) had grabbed the same black Chevy, which the two guys jumped into before driving off. Who ever said is was a Tahoe or Sububan was correct. Its an SUV type Chevrolet. Unfortunately I couldn't get the plate number or pictures.

An officer came up shortly after and I filed a proper police report. He was very helpful and said the police department were well aware of her. Apparently the district attorney is putting together a case against them as well. He said calling the police was the best bet if people she her again. He also mentioned that they are turning up in Natomas and Vacaville too, and said he thought they were from out of town. The pictures I got tonight didn't turn out so I have nothing to post on that end. I wish I did! She is still working the City of Davis however, so please keep your eyes out. —JamesMadden

2010-05-23 17:24:20   I've been had! i gave her 20 dollars! Definitely going to file a police report. What a jerk! —christinag

2010-05-24 09:39:04   Well, after thoroughly checking the tapes from Thursday 5/13, I can safely say that the cement toss is not on tape, it occured too far out of range of the cameras. She was back again tonight though. I was in the checkstand and a customer was getting cash back and just happened to mention that there was a girl outside who needed it for a train ticket. After I warned him about her scheme, I relieved myself from the checkstand and called Davis PD but she was gone by the time they got there. The officer mentioned that they have been recieving a lot of calls regarding her.

I checked the tapes shortly afterward and she's on it. Her apperence was slightly different as she had her hair in pigtails, but it was very clear on the tape that it was her, and also clear what she was doing. The tape catches her approaching 3 different shoppers as they exited their cars to run her scam. Her male accomplice parked himself near one of our cameras too, so I was able to get a descent look at him. The guy looks like he's about the same age as her, late teens to 20 years old, hispanic, medium height and was hearing a dark hoodie over a dark baseball cap and was holding a cell phone. It was quite clear on the tape that he was providing lookout.

So basically, stay vigilant because she's still around and probably not going anywhere until she's caught. —TonyAhr

2010-05-24 23:00:40   Ok, these guys are just plain dumb. You don't even have to look for them. Just show up at the South Davis Safeway after ten! Sure glad I'm a late night shopper. I watched them get out of their car and hit up some more innocent victims while I took a plate number. 4GDY921 —JamesMadden

  • Good job, James! Did you pass the plate number on to the police? —IDoNotExist
  • It won't last long (this page will be indexed soon), but that plate number has zero hits on Google. -jw
  • I got a hit. California Smog Check database IDs the car as a 1999 Chevrolet Tahoe with 4-doors. —HarrisonM

2010-05-25 18:01:39   UGHH!!!! this girl completely scammed me and my boyfriend back in May. She said she was kicked out of her boyfriends house and needed money for the train to San Diego. I believed but had had some skepticism in what she was saying but i figured it was the truth. So i gave her $40 and shook her hand and made her promise that she was using the money for that reason and that she wouldnt ask anyoneelse for money and be on that train in the morning. So much for thinking people could be honest! how can she look someone in the eye and lie to them and then repeated ly use this scam on other people! NO conscience! Well i defineately hope she gets caught and i WILL be filing a police report! —tleann

2010-05-25 19:23:52   Crying girl is almost certainly well into the grand theft range under California Penal Code sections 484 and 487. "Every person who ... shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of money, labor or real or personal property ... is guilty of theft." CPC section 484. The threshold for grand theft under 487 is $400 aggregate value. As grand theft is a felony, an officer of the law can arrest her (with probable cause) even if he has not witnessed her performing the act. In other words, if enough folks come forward and state that they've been screwed out of over $400 total with sufficient corroborating detail for probable cause, she can be arrested and charged.

C'mon, DPD! Investigate and act. —TomGarberson

2010-05-27 02:23:04   This was posted on The Davis Voice comments section by someone purporting to be "Crying Girl": 

yah ive been stopped by the cops three times and walked away. i bought my truck for $4500 a 2 bedroom house! 
THANX EVERYBODY for being so generous with the GREAT amount of money you have given me thanks again because
im going to hawaii in 2 weeks also for an acting job. i saved up $12,538 not including my truck or trip! thanx guys love ya
and lol thanx for making me FAMOUS!!! HA HA
look for me on the movies soon because you guys doing this showed my entertainment agency just how really great i am
and i have 3 jobs lined up including one in HAWAII! this was all part of my project for my agency to see how great i can
act and u citizens definetly paid for my beautiful portfolio!
p.s camera man we kno where u rest yur head good luck
EVERYONE ELSE ON HERE AND WHO STARTED THIS FUNNY S#^% THANX FOR THE ATTENTION(love it) &&
GET A F&#*(# LIFE LONER/LOSER NERD HAVE FUN [with] MY BEAUTIFUL PICTURE ABOVE!!
LOVE ALWAYS && FOREVER
YOUR RICH B(#*$ “CRYING GIRL”"
http://www.davisvoice.com/2010/05/crying-girl-grifter-at-large-in-davis/comment-page-1/#comment-307

2010-05-26 19:58:49   My wish is that the DPD does a quick undercover thing to get Amber and the 2 guys she works with. They could stakeout a parking lot that they're in, get approached by Amber, take her down while other plain clothes officers get the 2 guys before they can drive off. —jsbmeb

2010-05-29 23:22:16   The Crying Girl has approached me twice in the parking lot of the Fairfield/Green Valley Safeway. Once around 9-10pm outside of Safeway a couple of months ago and again tonight in front of CVS in the same shopping center about 8pm. I didn't quite believe her story the first time (her and her boyfriend got in a fight and he ditched her there and she needed money for a hotel room). I told her no and she moved on. Tonight I heard her crying as I was walking back to my car. I think she had just approached a man who turned her down and she moved on to me and my kids. I told her she's unbelievable, this is the second time she's approached me. She sobbed "I didn't" but walked away quickly. Thought later I should have gotten a picture of her or called the police. —JessiG

2010-05-30 16:04:37   I was approached by Crying Girl about 10PM on May 16th, 2010 in the Davis Marketplace parking lot in front of CVS. Her story was that she needed train fare to get to her mother's in San Diego. When I declined, she got beligerant and said "you don't have a heart". It seems like she's the one that does not have a heart. —TurboCat

2010-05-31 11:49:28   My roommate and I were tricked by this crying girl a while back. :( Makes me sad, because this makes it hard to interpret who needs help and is being truthful these days. >_< —PaulV

2010-06-01 00:37:40   Hey I found another lead... check out her brother's myspace. She's in this album. Apparently her brother is a bad apple too — arrested for robbing banks in the area. Lovely family. —GregMed

  • Incredible detective work, all of you. We now know her name is possibly Jill Johnson. I never imagined, when making this page and writing the blurb about this woman, that my little article would get on the news, in the newspaper, and arouse the entire wiki-detective squad to ferret her out. Amazing. Daviswiki is simply amazing. - Edward Niemand.
  • Yes, amazing!! Now hopefully all these media attention would encourage the DPD to act - according to the news articles they can't do anything unless an officer caught her on the act (and it's has to be violent?) I don't understand..

2010-06-01 08:44:06   Scott Johnson, the robber? Check this out. He was wanted for credit union robberies, considered armed and dangerous. $250,000 warrant for his arrest as of Nov 2009. The followup, turned himself in in December. Booked on three counts of bank robbery and one count of attempted robbery. Good to see he's moved up in the world. More seriously, isn't what he's doing with his sister some sort of violation? I know James filed called the police about the girl, but if this is the same guy that was spraying "deodorant mace" and threatening him...can't the police do anything about that? —EdWins

  • I can see why the cops didn't do anything about the "deodorant mace" incident, but I think throwing the concrete slab would have got her arrested. Did anybody ever put that in a police report? By the way, if he's a bank robber who was arrested in late 2009, doesn't it seem a bit early for him to be out of prison to help his sister with this? Somehow I find it hard to believe that he was able to scrounge up $250,000 for bail money. —ScottMeehleib
    • After looking through the links above, I'll concede, her brother may not have been one of the accomplices I encountered at Kinkos last month. I was pretty preoccupied with the skinny guy (Caleb) and the second person seemed a little scared and held back a bit. The body type and size was approximately right, but I shouldn't confirm him outright. The skinny kid was DEFINITELY there. He's the deodorant mace guy. I'd testify against him. The police, btw, should have a record of the rock throwing. They've been getting a bit of bad press out of this, so hopefully they'll step it up now. In the meantime, I'll update the picture. — JamesMadden
      • Well, if the police have no official report of assault, it would go a long way to help explain why no action has been taken. The recent news articles make it pretty clear, that without any documentation of assault, the police position is that she can't be arrested. —ScottMeehleib

2010-06-01 13:43:19   Crying girl approached me twice in one night a few months ago. I felt like there was something fishy about the situation. I thought she was trippin on drugs. When she first approached me on the corner of F and 3rd Street she pulled the whole homeless pitch, needing a train ticket to get to her mom in San Diego. I gave her a dollar from my wallet and told her that was all I had. She pointed at my ATM card and proceeded to ask me to get her more money. I said no way. She got more aggressive telling me there is an atm across the street and she will walk with me. I said no way and walked away. After spending a few hours in Bistro I proceeded to walk back to my car in the parking lot near kinkos/fed ex. She approached me a second time and pulled the same story. I told her she already approached me that night. She told me no she didnt, the jacket she was wearing was just the same as lots. I said no. She wailed into the air PLEASE and tripped over a curb. At this point I thought she was coming off some drug induced high and was desperate for money to buy more drugs. Who knew she was an actual con artist. Karma will come back and get her and when she needs help most no one will be there. —melibelly83

2010-06-03 01:18:59   In my experience with the crying girl the guy on the far right of the picture was the suburban driving guy, I know because he tried to pull through to our parking space and nearly hit our car and then appoligized to us. He is also in on it. Anybody else seen that guy? If so, I think we should note that in the picture—ChrisDietrich

2010-06-02 11:23:24   Crying girl is totally ruining my game. I fly a sign over by CVS pharmacy in North Davis either saying "Dogfood" or "Cany all rent anything helps" and I'm NOT lying. I work at Tuesday Morning in South Davis and make like $150/two weeks, that doesn't cover $500/mo. You know? Crying girl is making us all out to seem like liars and it really sucks because I don't want to end up homeless again, yes, I am looking for a second job with no luck. That girl pisses me off, will she be arrested soon? I hope. —Mogitha

2010-06-02 13:16:03   Come on guys, I reviewed the myspace pictures and the facebook pictures, they look EXACTLY like the girl who was hucking cement. —EdwardNiemand

2010-06-03 07:45:18   It wouldn't be a major problem for most of us being scamed for $5 or so. Even $35 is not a lifetime error if given to this abuser. It could be for poor people that are, nevertheless, compassive and give help to her. The scary thing is the "guardian angel" she seems to work along with. This tells things about level of organization, premeditation and so. I don't usually blame scammers when they catch a greedy person who agrees on go beyond the limits to get an advantage... but this is not the case. This girl (and people of her kind) target on the most beautiful thing we have in our hearts: compassion. The guardian angel and the loss of compassion are the major threats I feel here.

—JASH

2010-06-03 11:55:28   I was approached by the Crying Girl/retard in February, at the Safeway in North Davis. She was sobbing big crocodile tears, telling me about how her boyfriend kicked her out and she needed a train ticket, blah, blah, blah. I could tell she was full of shit, so I gave her a dollar just to piss her off and suggested she find a new boyfriend. She didn't get mad, though. Just walked away. —janellemacdonald1

2010-06-23 11:23:00   Wow, so yesterday my friend has just drove up from San Jose and stops in Dixon to pick up some stuff at a 7-eleven. A girl with make-up streaming down her face, completely sobbing, boobs falling out of her shirt runs up to him and begs for money. He doesn't exactly rememeber what she said, mainly the boobs part, lol. So I ask him if he gave her 5 bucks or something, and he said he didn't. I thought, what a jerk! Right?

But then, today, he sends me this link - http://gawker.com/5570130/meet-crying-girl-californias-celebrity-grifter - through facebook. It's THAT GIRL, and I was surprised to see Daviswiki cited on an east coast-based website! So we learn new stuff everyday, don't trust people asking for help, and sometimes new yorkers care about what's going on in Davis.

[This situation is too bad though, recently I forgot my wallet at the train station, I had my ticket but no wallet. I had to ask some guy for some money so I could get a bottle of water for my 8 hour train ride. I wonder if something like that happens again, if people will be so nice to help me out without thinking I'm a grifter] —someday909

2010-06-27 10:59:42   I'm going to defend my edit choice describing the content of the picture. It is necessary because many people I've talked to, including reporters, haven't realized that the object she is holding is a chunk of concrete. It is preferable to keep the picture associated with the original photographer's description, that he took the picture shortly before she threw the concrete. It is informative to readers of the wiki and helpful for their safety because it very clearly demonstrates that they should exercise caution when confronting this person. Finally, Scott, it is not provocative in any sense of the word; that caption I added is a neutral description of the action taking place in the photograph, and it provides information about the action going on during that snap which the still photograph cannot. It should stay. —EdwardNiemand

  • How about we change it to "holding a piece of concrete" then? The problem I have with "preparing to hurl" is that it implies an action that may or may not have happened. The photographer has made probable false allegations in the past (regarding the brother) and it is still unexplained as to why the alleged assault can not be verified as being in a police report. Unless new knowledge arises, I think we should just stick to the facts regarding the alleged assault. If she is portrayed in a violent way that has not been completely established, it may increase the odds that someone will try to hurt her, or that she may hurt them back. —ScottMeehleib
    • First off, the photographer didn't make "false allegations." He thought he recognized one of her accomplices and then, upon further reflection, decided that he didn't get enough of a good look at the guy to positively identify him, and honestly recanted. Nothing in this indicates dishonesty on his part as you imply, nothing in it calls into question his other factual assertions about the things that happened to him. Misidentification, especially during encounters in less-than-ideal conditions (such as getting attacked with concrete in the dark) is incredibly common among honest eye witnesses. The facts remain, however, and they overwhelmingly support including the PHOTOGRAPHER'S ACCOUNT OF WHAT HAPPENED ALONG WITH HIS PHOTO. He was there. He took the photograph. He says the chunk of concrete in her hand in the photograph was hurled at him shortly after he took the photograph. The photograph is of a woman holding a chunk of concrete with her arm cocked, as if to huck it. These are simple facts of what happened which are not subject to the same kind of confusion as facial identification. To dispute these facts, you're going to have to not only convince us all that the guy is an outright liar, which you haven't come close to, you're going to have to do it in the face of pretty significant, PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence that he's telling the truth. Frankly, I'm interested to hear an alternate explanation from you as to how that chunk of concrete got into her hands, why she was holding it with her arm cocked like that (if not to throw it) and what she did with it after the picture was taken. I think you have a pretty high standard of proof here; show us that the guy IS AN OUTRIGHT LIAR and some PLAUSIBLE reason for her to have concrete in her hand, with her arm cocked, that doesn't involve her hucking it. —EdwardNiemand
      • I'll meet you half way and add "allegedly", how's that? I'm pretty insistent that the danger of this girl not be underplayed because she followed one of my friends to her car and ATTACKED HER. This DID result in a police report, which is the original reason I made this article and involved myself with this con artist. -EN
        • But was the assault actually listed in the police report? William Lewis asked the Davis police about it a while back and they said the assault was never reported. EDIT: Actually, William was probably asking in reference to the rock-throwing, but i'm still curious to know if you are sure that assault has been alleged in your friend's police report. Also, since your friend was "attacked" and that's why you made the con artists page, why is it that you only wrote "she has been known to follow people who do this for blocks, shouting at them and threatening them" with no mention of the attack? —ScottMeehleib
          • I know that facts clearly supporting charges of assault were alleged in my friend's statement to the police. I don't know whether the police actually made a report or kept any record of this crime - I have reasons to doubt that they did, given my experience with them, and their response when I called inquiring about it. As for my choice of words, I could have been clearer. If you intend by this line of questioning to call me a liar just as you accused the photographer, it will be a very one-sided conversation, for I will not entertain such accusations with any serious response. -EdwardNiemand
          • They had no record of a report by James Madden. The report may exist under the guy's real name. —wl
      • Whether the incorrect allegation was intentional or not, it's pretty irresponsible to put a big red square around somebody's face in a picture with a caption saying "accomplice" without being completely sure of yourself, especially when the photographer was making such an allegation based on similarity of "body type and size" as he puts it. As far as the photo, maybe she was holding the slab to ward off a possible attacker. Maybe she felt that the photographer was invading her personal space and was holding the concrete because she was scared. It doesn't look like she was about to throw it to me; it just looks like she is holding it. The photographer has also admitted to using a pseudonym, which doesn't really help his story much, especially when his allegations of assault apparently can't be found in a police report. For all we know, maybe he has a personal vendetta against her; we'll never know if he won't tell us his real identity. Edward, didn't you say your friend was also assaulted? Has your friend filed this with the police? If verifiable allegations of assault are actually made, then maybe she will be arrested, and I won't have to sit here reverting to try to avoid the likelihood of vigilante justice. —ScottMeehleib
        • He says he was there. He said she threw concrete at him. He has a picture of her, with concrete in her hand, doing what looks to be a wind up for a huck. You're distracting the matter with talks of irresponsibility, red squares, and idle speculation about what the photo actually shows. Really, this all boils down to one thing, Scott. Can you show to the community's satisfaction that the man is lying? What have you demonstrated to us as evidence that the man is a liar? That he mistakenly identified an accomplice, and then recanted after reconsidering? That he didn't file a police report under the pseudonym he uses here? That he uses a pseudonym here? I use a pseudonym here. You also offer absolutely unsubstantiated speculation about nefarious motives that the witness might have, completely inventing the idea that he has some sort of plot to exact revenge by lying to all of us here. Lying with photographic evidence, apparently. You offer these pieces of "evidence" to refute a very convincing set of facts: The man claims to have photographed her hucking a piece of concrete at him. He has a photograph of her with a piece of concrete, winding up in a manner that really suggests she was about to throw it. To counter this, you merely offer an utterly unsubstantiated and incredible hypothesis for what you think is displayed in the photograph, that, somehow, he was attacking her while photographing her, and his attacks were so threatening that she felt the need to lawfully defend herself with a deadly weapon, a hunk of concrete. Are you honestly, seriously, still arguing this with us? Your concerns about a mere caption tipping some sort of balance and triggering an inferno of violent vigilante action is absolutely uncompelling and does not inspire me to overlook the weak "evidence" you bring to bear to support your position. Prove to us he's a liar with something more than tenuous theories, and give us a plausible contrary explanation for why this man has a picture of her preparing to huck a chunk of concrete. Otherwise, please kindly accept that your view is in the extreme minority, and allow the edit to stand. - EdwardNiemand
          • I don't see why the burden of proof is on me; I didn't give a working hypothesis as much as I simply wanted to show that alternative views are possible. I never said he was lying about the rock being thrown, but I also don't think we should automatically trust a person who makes a wiki account solely to make criminal accusations under a pseudonym. I don't think using a pseudonym is inherently wrong, but I do think he should have been clear from the start that he was using one for personal safety (or whatever his reason was). In my opinion, he loses a lot of credibility when he only admits it's a fake name after someone tried to verify his allegations with the police. Let's say that I decide to have faith in the photographer's and your friend's accusations of assault. Doesn't this mean that I have to then believe the Davis police force is incompetent, lazy, or corrupt for not acknowledging this? Maybe there is something fishy going on, but i'm not sure why i should just accept this. I mean, look at this way, there have been several media reports in which the Davis police continuously state that it seems she is simply panhandling without evidence of violence. They have apparently decided that the photo in question is not good enough evidence of assault (likely because the photographer admits he was not harmed in the incident), and so i'm not sure why I or the wiki community should buy into the idea that it is good evidence when even the police don't think it is. She is clearly carrying an object that could be used to harm a person, but I don't see how this implies that she actually threw it. Since you are concerned with facts and neutrality, I don't suppose you would object if I change the caption to reflect that the allegations of assault were made by an anonymous wiki user? Then, at least people can make up their own minds whether they want to trust a person who uses a pseudonym whose allegations have not been supported by news or police sources. —ScottMeehleib
            • The burden of proof is on you because you're accusing another contributor of being an outright liar. There are no two ways about it; he provided a picture of her winding up for a throw with a hunk of concrete, and said she threw it at him. We aren't "automatically trusting" him; he has provided significant evidence with his claims, a photograph. This is compelling evidence which you have yet to directly refute in any way shape or form. You bring up a side matter, and I'll address it, because as an attorney, it has bothered me. The police have made several incorrect statements about their ability to pursue this woman. I have previously demonstrated in the comments of this article multiple laws that she has broken for which she can be prosecuted, with detailed code section citations. I have also described the process by which the police can arrest her, even for misdemeanors committed out of their presence which do not breach the peace. The public statement by the police, that they cannot arrest her for these acts, is simply wrong. I will not waste space re-explaining the mechanics of this process, but, with the cooperation of the District Attorney, they can arrest her. This does not mean that the police are incompetent, lazy, or corrupt, as you try to force upon us using a false-choice fallacy. It is absolutely not grounds for concluding anything about what the police think of the photograph; any such conclusion ascribed to them would be your whole-cloth invention. Look, I'm tired of dragging this point out with you, because your arguments are weak, they're obtuse, sloppy and complicated to address, but most importantly, they convince no-one, and as such aren't worth my time to refute. If you don't see how this photograph lends support to the photographer's assertion that she threw that concrete, there isn't much I can do to argue the matter further with you; you are beyond the realm of persuasion. Don't put irrelevant information in the caption, that will only clutter the article. It's time for you to put forth or stop. Come up with something stronger to stand on and make your case, or leave off. -EdwardNiemand
              • I disagree with everything you've said. I believe that the photo alone, without documentation of injury or witnesses, is no better evidence of assault than a photo of a person holding a baseball bat or hammer. I also believe that alleging a crime on the wiki with a pseudonym is generally bad form and could be seen as an act of dishonesty (AKA "lie") that may hurt one's credibility, especially if the person is not up front about it from the beginning. These are opinions that we differ on, and I am not interested in further debate on this aspect of the issue because we will never see eye to eye, and I simply don't believe the police are wrong in this case. I am fine with JW's edit, and I will let it stand at that. —ScottMeehleib
  • To be fair, it never seemed as though he was trying to conceal the fact that it was not his real name, and on his own page he gives a reasonable explanation as to why it hasn't been recorded as assault. Why are you so interested in defending her? I haven't seen any information on the page that implies innocence on her part, and I have no reason to doubt what JamesMadden says, even if it's not permissible in a court of law. —JoePomidor
    • I am interested in defending her because the accusations of assault are much more serious than the accusations of lying to get money. True, there is a lot of evidence that she has "conned" many people out of money, but I do not believe there has yet been any substantial evidence shown that she has actually intended to physically hurt anyone. I am concerned about people who may try to carry out vigilante justice if they believe she is incredibly violent. Maybe she really has assaulted people, but I think accusations of violence should have considerable evidence behind them before they are allowed on the wiki. Edit: Also, if the pseudonym was not meant to conceal the fact that he is not using a real name, I don't see why he used a name that sounds like it could be real. He could have called himself "witness" or "photographer" or whatever. —ScottMeehleib
      • If I recall correctly, there were other written statements about her becoming violent after being called out. —hankim
        • The only allegations of violence that I recall were from Edward Niemand and James Madden. If I am missing someone, please let me know. —ScottMeehleib
      • I use a pseudonym that sounds real. I do it for good reason. -EN

She is defending herself? From the person she just asked for money, for the third time? Then he goes to take a photo and she grabs a chunk of concrete? Did safeway catch the hucking? As far as I'm concerned leave it how it is. She doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, he does. Daubert

* I like Jabberwocky's edit. -EN

Not sure why this is still up... I'll delete tomorrow with William ban page.

This is not even a Talk page!

Basically being used as a talk page. Do really want this up? The main page is basically reflecting all this now.

If the main page reflects this and the discussion doesn't have any value itself, delete. —tg

Footnotes

1. "I didn't think it looked much like her either or her brother, until I noticed the brother's profile picture on facebook was also one of the pictures on his myspace. From there I was able to make the logical connection."
2. "I didn't think it looked much like her either or her brother, until I noticed the brother's profile picture on facebook was also one of the pictures on his myspace. From there I was able to make the logical connection."

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