This page is for discussing the contents of Davis Massage Center.

Anyone else see something funny with the comments on this page? —cp

I don't even know where to begin... —EBT

I've thought the same thing, but if it is sockpuppeting, it's pretty sophisticated. Either lots of different computers, or just a few proxies. Spaced out in time. Yadda yadda. —TomGarberson


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2012-06-01 21:24:09   Move to end discussion, unless any interested parties wish to add further input. —jefftolentino

2012-06-01 21:25:26   It should be noted on the page. —CovertProfessor

2012-06-28 21:07:47   How does a user link become broken? I'm a massage therapist, full disclosure, and have no interest in detracting from Amanda's business. I know she has a well-deserved reputation as an excellent MT. Since we therapists get a lot of business from the wiki, I think this business deserves a chance to address this issue if any talk of sockpuppeting is going on. —LilyS

2012-06-28 22:38:43   Surely you don't mean that because a business who puts absolutely nothing into the wiki happens to benefit from the wiki, that the wiki somehow owes them something? It's only OK when the free wiki, built by the work of volunteers, helps businesses?

Is there something that is preventing this business from "addressing the issue"? If you are concerned you could contact them yourself and ask them to weigh in. No one has said that the business cannot be involved in the discussion. This Talk page has been here for awhile, and *no* edit has been made to the main page. —CovertProfessor

That seems like a very cynical reading of what Lily said, CP. A little harsh, maybe? For people not familiar with the wiki - particularly if they also aren't very computer savvy - talk pages are obscure and hard to find. It could very well be a lack of familiarity with the wiki (Lily's or the business owner's), as opposed to a feeling that the wiki owes businesses something, which is the basis for Lily's comment. So... Lily, could you clarify what you mean? —TomGarberson

LilyS has been editing the wiki for awhile and is quite savvy. My reading of her comment is based on prior exchanges with her where she has made it clear that in her view, businesses should never be criticized on the wiki. I also object to the fact that her comment begins from claimed victim hood, rather than simply a query. —cp

Please, CP, quote where I said a business should never be criticized on the wiki, as well as my claim to victimhood. If you read our exchange on my User page you will see that I took CP's comments seriously, made the suggested edits, and thanked him sincerely for his feedback. The wiki project is awesome, and I love learning more about it and adding to it. Whether you like it or not, it has a huge impact on a business owner's bottom line beyond the informational nature of the content, due to users' tendency to use it as an uber local Yelp. It impacts my livelihood. It impacts all businesses' livelihoods. The wiki owes us nothing, but I would ask that CP tone down the antagonism. I'm not the enemy. ~LilyS

And Tom, to clarify, I didn't mean to imply the wiki owes businesses anything. I was concerned that a sockpuppet banner was considering being added to a business's page before a serious attempt had been made to verify this was indeed what was happening. Thanks for asking for clarification! ~LilyS

This page was created on May 15, 2010 — over two years ago. No one has exactly rushed to put the banner on the page, have they? The wiki has been giving plenty of time for input from the business owner or anyone else who cares to join in, yes? It wasn't that you were claiming victimhood, LilyS, it's your implication that the business owner "deserves" something that had been denied to her that rubbed me the wrong way. As though the big bad wiki were coming down on the poor business owner who was being refused a chance to address the issue, when (again) there was simply a (very slow) discussion in progress about what to do. As for your assertion that leaving negative comments is something that shouldn't be done, it's here. I realize that you were expressing your own view of what should be done and have not sought to have others prevented from leaving negative comments, but to me, it was a very revealing comment about how you see businesses and the wiki. —cp

For the lazy, here is the full text from the LS comment CP cited above. Isn't really as bad as CP made it out to be, imo. —JT

2011-04-27 17:15:06 Hi CovertProfessor! I really like the edit you did for tanning. Thank you! I have in fact been on Davis Wiki for more than a year and have used my account to review other businesses. I didn't sign up for the express purpose of adding my business. I have been employed at businesses in Davis that were extensively reviewed by the wiki, have friends who are business owners, and have been following the controversy and support for the wiki from the point of view of both a community member and a business owner/contractor/someone who's livelihood is heavily influenced by the power of wiki reviews. I have also refrained from posting some comments about negative experiences I've had in Davis with landlords and businesses, not because I don't want to hurt people's feelings, but because I recognize the power of 1 negative review over 1,000 positive.

I have also given input directly to the fellows who were raising funds in the market last fall. The archiving old comments (which most of us don't readily know how to do) seems like a clunky answer to programming that should have been last comment first. So you see, I'm not new to Daviswiki or just falling prey to the lure of free advertising. I realize that's not what wiki is about.


2012-06-29 09:49:47   Gentleman, you have my opinion, which I'll continue to give. I'm not going to be bullied out of participating in the Wiki project or advocating for users who want to edit in an environment of respect. I appreciate everything you do to keep the wiki honest and non promotional, and CP if you ever want to get coffee and see that I'm a nice person capable of intelligent discourse, let me know. You know where I work. —LilyS

2012-06-29 09:51:01   So, your opinion is that we should give the business owner an opportunity to weigh in. We all share that opinion. If you're not simply here to complain, then what is your point? —CovertProfessor

  • I believe the first thing she asked is, "How does a user link become broken?" Has anybody answered that? -jw
    • LS, are you talking about the user links with the dotted line rather than the solid line? These are just users who have never created a user page. If not, were you finding links that did not connect to some other page at all? —JT