so instead of just being an obstinate remover of someone attempting to interact with the community I'm going to contact Trien in the real world in their native language. They probably aren't the most computer savy I just don't like the Narrative that Co is attempting to push

I am not trying to 'push' anything (a 'narrative'?), SD. Good suggestion to talk to him in his native language (which is?) ConstantiaOomen

Vietnamese. They are clearly trying to communicate thru a language & tech barrier, I know it's a store owner responding to a drive by comment, but the fact is they keep thinking about what they want to say & then attempting to do so. Lets help them communicate instead of being deaf

OK. Thanks for clarifying this. Unfortunately, I don't speak Vietnamese. Do you? ConstantiaOomen

old talk below this line

I recommend the comment by a competitor be removed. — DonShor


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I completely agree. —PeteB

As the information might be useful, another alternative is to mark it as coming from a competitor. —cp


    Thank you. —PeteB

I still STRONGLY believe that the brands should be removed from the page. Like I said before, they are NOT authorized dealers of said brands and since everyone is so concerned with giving potential customers the wrong impression it would be better to not confuse them with misleading information. - Aaron

  • How do we prove they are not authorized dealers? —PeteB
  • Why not just say that they are not an authorized dealer? Sort of like how on the Bizarro World page, we let it say that they hold Magic: the Gathering tournaments but they're not DCI sanctioned. Of course, if it's a used bike shop only, I don't know why they should even list brands there? —hankim

Stop by tomorrow and ask them or go to, etc and confirm. I called T&M at noon when they got in today and confirmed but my opinion is [email protected]#$ here so one of you wikigods should do it to verify my findings. - Aaron

  • I would request you stop adding material to their description until your concerns can be verified. Your "just like every other bike shop in town" comes across as really snarky. —PeteB
  • Aaron-I asked you to stop posting snarky comments on their page....I was willing to make the phone calls necessary to validate your concerns (I have a friend who works for Cannondale) but if you keep doing this, you are driving my interest to help you down. If you're going to keep posting snarky comments it makes you look like you really do have a negative point to prove about T&M Bike Shop. Please...relax and let me help you like you suggested. —PeteB

I don't mean to pile on Arron, and I truly understand your perspective, and I think your heart was in the right place, but it just doesn't fly. As a business owner I've wanted to do the same thing on occasion, but honestly, either anonymously or in the open, there is no good way to critique your competition without sounding like a [email protected], which I don't think was ever your intention. Just don't ever risk your reputation, period.-Davidlm

  • @ Pete, My remark was not snarky, it is a generalized statement of fact. I don't sell the brands they have listed. Its the fact that the name recognition associated with those brands is not their right to use. It belongs to the respective shops in town who PAY for that right. If you were the one to point this out in the first place rather than me, it would have been fine am I correct? Its the fact that I caught it and made the appropriate changes the 1st time and you guys insist I have some ulterior motive. Thats what pisses me off the most. I didn't start this, but I will damn well see it through. No other USED bike shop, thebike people, bike collective, green bicycle depot or even the bike exchange claim to sell a particular brand (other than the big SCHWINN sign which they have been asked to remove numerous times by Schwinn and their authorized dealer B&L, but choose to ignore). Every shop in this town has their nitch, what they specialize in. But none of us claim to be something we are not. That's what I was originally trying to correct. I'm not saying whoever posted the description originally was trying to intentionally mislead people, just that it needs to be corrected so that people aren't mislead. So when this is all said and done, and I am proven correct in my findings, do I get an appology or does the circle jerk continue? -Aaron
  • I haven't had an opportunity to do the research to prove that they aren't authorized dealers. If I prove they aren't then we go from there...—PeteB
  • I don't understand why you insist on fighting me on this. I'm right in that they have no right using those brands to further their business and you insist on your way. I just wanted the brands removed since they have no place being mentioned on their page. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why is your opinion any greater than mine? Because I own a bike shop? If this were a debate over trademark stuff at Pete's coffee claiming they sell Starbucks, I'd be all over that too. Regardless of the format of the business in question, what's on their page does not belong. I posted that they "sold used bikes of various makes and models" if that's not a general and neutral statement, I don't know what is. —Aaron.Curtin
    • As a customer I'd like to know what brands they tend to get. I don't care what's authorized or not. That's something a serious biker or business owner might care about. So, note it if they are not authorized, but don't remove useful information. This is not about their "right" to have the info up there (they have none), but about making the page useful. —CovertProfessor

2013-06-26 01:55:32   Might as well list every brand on every wiki page then. Doesn't make sense does it? The don't sell Cannondales or Treks, they sell used bikes some of which at anytime might be x, y, or z. See where I'm going with this? Might as well list microwave brand on goodwill's or SPCA Thrift's page too. Since I'm sure they have GE, panasonic and Sony in their store at anytime. I will take the time to do it tomorrow if it makes my point any clearer. Its not logical at all or linear but would go along with your thought process. —Aaron.Curtin

  • I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. A business selling used stuff knows what brands they tend to get in, and that information is relevant to the customer. —cp
  • Then it appears I have a lot of editing to do today - Aaron

2013-06-26 09:20:15   I think the way the page reads now is a good compromise. It says they are not an authorized dealer, and does not sell new parts, but still includes that they sell used bikes and lists a few brands from their used stock. Its seems clear to me. —jefftolentino

2013-06-26 12:11:30   I haven't taken the time to look through more than a few of the edits that have been made, but Aaron, can I suggest that you step away from the Wiki for a bit? I can attest from personal experience that editing while angry or upset rarely does anyone any good. I know (again from personal experience) that being told to take a Wiki Chill Pill can come across as insulting or condescending, but I'm offering this suggestion from a constructive position: please take a minute to read over that page.

Just as a general matter, I think it's better when competitors don't edit pages about one another's businesses. It's not because there's anything necessarily unfair, inaccurate, ill-intentioned, or dishonest about it. It's a matter of perception. Any commentary from a competitor, at least if it's negative (even of objective and purely factual) is inevitably going to lead to problems. Just look at the history of the taxi pages on the wiki. —TomGarberson

2013-06-26 12:32:27   Agreeing with Tom here. For that matter, I think everyone should take a step back, (speaking from experience as well). It's becoming less and less constructive now. —jefftolentino

2013-06-26 13:00:04   Thank you for your insite, and thank you for speaking to me with a non judgmental attitude, unlike others here. The self righteous attitude of the wiki editors is what boils my blood. I removed my comment on T&M, but still think the brands should be edited out in a manner where those brands are no longer in question. They do not sell Specialized bikes, they sell USED bikes and may happen to have one. There is a difference. It may be a matter of semantics, but I have a hard time understanding the lack of logic involved by such an educated community. It got blown out of proportion very quickly, to which I apologize, but having my input be disregarded and with such hostility put me on the defensive. I don't care what other editors say, its how they say it. —Aaron.Curtin

  • I think you still don't understand why people were upset about your sockpuppeting (I know you've said that you've put it behind you, but given that you didn't apologize or acknowledge any wrongdoing, that's hard for some of us to do), and I think you're seeing the brand issue from the perspective of a bike shop owner (understandable) rather than a customer who might not care as much about such distinctions. However, I do appreciate your deleting your comment from the T&M page and for toning down the page for your own business. Those are true signs of character. —CovertProfessor

2014-05-20 00:33:50   Two negative comments in two days from one-off accounts isn't sitting well with me, especially since a local bike shop has already made an ass of himself unapologetically tried to use sockpuppets on the wiki to smear this business. I've never been to the T and M and really don't give a shit, but I'm going to revert it and disengage because the comments cite Yelp (bleh) and seem disingenuous. —MikeyCrews

  • I was iffy myself, but decided to leave it. But I'm not going to restore it. -jw

2014-07-02 14:12:34   I suggest we remove this comment, tell me what you think:

And here why I think it should be removed - see my comment:

2014-07-01 23:35:50 Don't know how long this comment will stay up...I posted a comment a few months ago and it got deleted. This place seems sketchy. The bike's prices are too cheap for anyone to make a decent profit off of it. The only way to make a good profit is if the bikes were stolen. There are lots of bike thief rings in Berkley and I'm suspicious the owner might get it from them. The bikes look like they have been liberated from their true owners. The overall quality of the bikes were a 3 out of 5 stars. Don't shop here, buying bikes from T and M only contributes to the bike theft problem not only in other communities but ours as well. —JakeKai —ConstantiaOomen

(Repeated) Message for triendinh:

Stop adjusting your comment, this is quite confusing. Thank you, ConstantiaOomen

2014-07-09 22:24:58   is the recently added "They are found on Google and Davis Wiki, no other website" sentence really necessary? —MichelleNguyen