Old comments from CovertProfessor's page:

2012-01-02 16:08:45   Thanks! :) I got a kick out of the short story you linked to as well. —ScottMeehleib

2012-01-02 17:20:03   Thank you! Glad you liked the photo and page. —EliseKane

2012-01-06 16:25:22   Oops, sorry for leaving off the address info! Just added it to Davis Flea Market. —NicholasBarry

2012-01-06 16:38:11   Yeah, thing is, we don't actually want anyone coming to the flea market... haha, thanks for catching that. By the way, interested in getting together for a Davis edit party to play around with the new Sacwiki code? I just put together a page to suggest this gathering: Edit party to preview Localwiki code. —NicholasBarry

2012-01-09 19:52:18   Orthography != Grammar. /pedant —WilliamLewis

2012-01-10 23:34:56   real mature

If you didn't want your digital information to be used for something (even if stated otherwise), then you shouldn't have joined (cause that possibility always exists anytime you transmit over any medium)

and if you really object to the circumstances in which this slapdickery occurred, go try and kill the wikispot project thru litigation or something productive.

We know something went down and we (the community, and the people with the keys) are apparently trying to rectify it, and if you want to continue to be a killjoy that is your choice to make —StevenDaubert

2012-01-10 23:38:50   you don't seem to understand the back end, which is fine. As far as I can tell Nicholas Barry was granted access inadvertently when his user was elevated when he took on responsibilities for the SacWiki Wikispot switch. Did Nicholas seek out this position of great power with malice in his heart, or was he simply trying to get everyone under the wikispot house on the same page??? Was he wrong in using these great powers for grey area tactics. This seems like a case of a user in a group overstepping his bounds with access, granted that comes attached with the privacy can of worms, but from a technical standpoint (one that Mike and Phillip are apparently going to address tomorrow)

ah **** it I don't really care Have a pleasant day

—StevenDaubert

2012-01-10 23:50:10   Also you were correct about that Wells Fargo editor earlier that other person had great intentions... just for the SEO business they run and the client who hired them to crawl the web and insert links everywhere. Depends on the POV —StevenDaubert

2012-01-10 23:52:05   don't quote me, unless it comes with the stipulation that is just my theory based on what I gleaned

—StevenDaubert

2012-01-14 21:40:42   Sorry, couldn't fit the explanation in the space provided. I was trying to make the "Corporate Money Talks" image fit the page better, but when I uploaded a saved copy and used the "thumbnail" procedure to reduce it to about 700 pixels, the text wrapped around the right edge. Not really all that important, but thanks for watching out for me. —PhillipFujiyoshi

2012-01-15 14:34:42   Most freeways are not divided and since you're involved with Turkeys, I think most prefer a divided freeway. —BruceHansen

2012-01-22 17:08:23   I have the menu but no scanner =( Sorry, no eggplant parm! —MeggoWaffle

2012-01-22 19:36:37   Romneycare refers specifically to the healthcare system in Massachusetts. Maybe I'm running in the wrong circles, but I've never heard of PPACA referred to as Romneycare. —WilliamLewis

2012-01-22 19:54:56   How the hell is it a loaded term? The president apparently approves of it, even. —WilliamLewis

2012-01-22 20:01:13   It's associating Obama's signature accomplishment with his name. It's only considered derogatory in some circles because it's not the most popular thing in the world. The term itself is neutral. Anyway, you're still associating "Romneycare" with PPACA, which is erroneous. —WilliamLewis

2012-01-25 20:03:06   The actual relevant link from Navigating Campus would be Navigating Davis > Surface Streets > Campus. I was of course suggesting the phrase for that link: Navigating Davis Campus Streets. Just Navigating Davis isn't so relevant. Perhaps you would like another phrase better. —BruceHansen

2012-01-26 09:32:30   I think that may have been a reference to the houses, not the women. My wife and I have an ongoing joke about how she thinks anything that's smaller than usual is cute. Tiny cupcake? Cute. Tiny dog? Cute. Tiny stapler? Cute. Tiny house? .... —TomGarberson

2012-01-26 11:07:40   I'm honestly afraid to make any sort of reply, in light of the recent sexism issue. —TomGarberson

2012-01-30 13:49:17   Hi there! Question for you.....I just noticed zenkids clothing, an online only shop. So does that mean we can all put our webshops here on the daviswiki if we ourselves live in davis, or if we offer a special deal to davis residents? Or only if they are homemade? I sell plastic beads and hair things at www.snapaholics.com, but ain't none of it handmade! I never thought of putting it on the wiki because it's a webshop....but it would be great if my store came up if people put in "beads" in the search field. I sell a ton of plastic beads in lots of shapes, you can't find in stores. Thanks! -StephHolm —StephHolm There is a place for Davisite owned websites, throw yourself on that list and by all means make a page Daubert

2012-01-31 20:14:45   Could you explain to me why you keep reverting the changes to "Island Barber and Spa"? —carrieweinrich

2012-02-01 14:02:37   This was an excellent reply. I'm inclined to incorporate it in some form into WTTW/Business Owner. —TomGarberson

2012-02-03 22:25:25   Thanks CP, they're better, but honestly, his pages are so bad I really can't figure out what to do with them... —Davidlm

2012-02-04 09:38:19   Hello CP,check out the Dpd police log from yesterday, the guy actually filed a complaint. his comment on bistros page, yeah I can understand, but on the bouncers page I don't agree with the remarks. —ndah100

2012-02-04 11:42:41   I 100% agree with you, it's good to see we are on the same page. he could have possibly stated the story about what happened at the bar, but he can't go off in a tangent and make those remarks. Hope the year is going good for you —ndah100

2012-02-05 17:50:31   You're welcome. I haven't tried that brand before, but I hope you enjoy them! :) —ScottMeehleib

2012-02-06 22:43:36   I'm not trying to ignore other editors. I just don't want to look at my user page until I know that the "troll" discussion is moved somewhere else for now, like a directory of my user page (like /Trolling Accusation). As I commented to Ed, I'm not quite ready to finish that discussion and I don't want to see it until I am ready. I'll be glad to use my user page when I know that that is moved. I'm glad to discuss things now, but not in the context of trolling. Thank you. —BruceHansen

2012-02-06 23:26:50   I don't know if my user page still has the trolling discussion — the last time I read it there was a discussion about that with me, JW and MW — and if it's not there, where is it — removed or moved to another page? —BruceHansen

2012-02-07 20:48:50   Thx for the support on working that issue out. —PeterBoulay

2012-02-08 11:32:28   I'm betting you're right. I just find erring on "their side" makes things both more pleasant and puts a spotlight on people who would lie about things for their own advancement. —JabberWokky

2012-02-10 13:18:00   CP.... I just read over his page & it's clear Bruce simply isn't WILLING to work this issue out...it's gone beyond simple non-understanding on his part. I have watched all of you try to work with him to no avail. Maybe it's time for a proposal of a temporary ban? —PeterBoulay

2012-02-11 18:54:35   Cool! I'm glad to hear the red bean buns from Kim's are at least acceptable. I'll give them a shot as well one of these days. If you ever track down the perfect red bean bun or cake somewhere in the Sac/Davis area, let me know! —ScottMeehleib

2012-02-18 14:45:10   Actually, I'd say that the wiki is a place where the many conflicting values can be recorded and found, rather than things like news and formal sources, which are more concerned with facts. The wiki is (ideally) effective at showing both of — and also the difference between — the law of the land and the current cultural sense of what is just. Of course, this makes it even a wider gap between aiming for a purely "factual" presentation and many other people's goals. —JabberWokky

2012-02-18 17:37:57   Yep. Other than a nit-picky bit about objective conclusions that doesn't really affect the practical upshot of things, we're pretty much in agreement. —JabberWokky

2012-02-20 13:56:30   Thanks for checking in with me. I misread the # and thought they were exact. I am wrong here and have retracted the banners. I still have concerns about the similar nature of the comments. —PeterBoulay

2012-02-20 15:41:34   I am removing your comment - it already obvious I am breaking the rules, we have established that and if you know of a safe place to bring a group of dogs without breaking any rules please let me know. —ElizabethBarthel

2012-02-21 12:14:01   I should try and remember to take a photo of my wife's preserved wedding dress. They boxed it up and whatnot for her and it's stashed under the bed. —TomGarberson

2012-02-23 23:39:57   Haha. Honestly, as much as I still feel I was deprived of my opinions there, I not going to reopen the discussion. I did have ideas on BW that I felt were important, and to be fair, there were a few outright deletions at the outset that rubbed me the wrong way. But you're right, 4 people voted a "community process" was put in place to remove it. That's the imperfect nature of this wiki, so for now I'm cool with it. —jefftolentino

  • Passive aggressive and bitter is not a good combination. Just let it go. -Megan

2012-02-24 16:41:07   I guess my original comment on the EW page last night was saying the same thing. There have been long standing traditions, and people are always going to find other peoples editing style "unacceptable", etc, but there have been exceptions to the rules in the past, and no matter what you say, it will never be a hard and fast game. Not taking sides on either one of you guys' discussion there, just saying the "rules" are not fixed. —jefftolentino

2012-02-29 18:33:44   I've contemplated commenting to Rhonda as a fellow business owner for quite a while. But some people are not willing to admit that anything could be their fault. It's like bashing your head on a wall. It's just completely useless no matter how good the intentions. —Davidlm

2012-02-29 20:58:24   hope all is well with you CP, happy new year —ndah100

2012-02-29 21:03:23   very true CP, i hope my recent edits on Red 88's page does not stir controversy, i simply wanted to give Wiki'ers a chance to see a reply by Red 88 Management. —ndah100

2012-03-01 09:11:50   The presence of plastic bags in nature is a really weak argument for banning them. Are there really no other, less drastic solutions to that problem? —jsogul

  • Is this tongue-in-cheek? Serious question. -M
    • Assuming that he is serious... the article that I linked to was not meant to be a full-scale argument for why plastic bags should be banned. Those arguments have been made elsewhere, including on the Ban Plastic Bags page. Rather, the article was meant to respond to people like Bob Dunning who have claimed that everyone is re-using the bags and that he doesn't see how they could get into the waterways. Obviously, people are not re-using them, or even if they are, they end up in the landfill and then escaping from the landfill — and yes, there they are, in the waterways. They don't have to go to the ocean to be a problem for wildlife. They are costly to clean-up, and for a town that goes out of its way to preserve open space, unsightly and ugly. Sure, we wouldn't need to pass a law if people would just do the right thing and use cloth bags. Obviously, that is not happening, and the pictures in the article demonstrate that very clearly. Again, I don't think I've even given all of the arguments against plastic bags. Another one is that they are simply wasteful — use once or maybe twice, and then throw away. We need to get out of that mentality. —CovertProfessor

2012-03-01 12:35:08   I actually use and reuse plastic bags for a variety of odd reasons, some of which are not bag related (I use them as dropcloths in painting small objects, etc). I find them amazingly handy to have. I'm enough of an oddball in that regard that I'd probably buy them for non-grocery purposes (likely a roll of the veggie style bags). Then again, I don't think my use is really the problem being addressed. I also use packaging peanuts as fill for models. —JabberWokky

2012-03-02 04:47:11   I would reply, but Edgar has sucked away my will to live. —JabberWokky

2012-03-02 12:40:34   I like it. Then again, I like shaking up the comment macro text here and there. —JabberWokky

2012-03-07 09:37:22   my response. —EdWins

2012-03-07 16:07:55   maybe Davis wiki should have a link on front page about the new 'Kony2012' (how we can help/link to the YouTube video) etc etc I am sure someone in davis is affected by it —ndah100

2012-03-07 17:08:31   CovertProfessor, I have a question for you. Ever since seeing you post here on the wiki, I've had the urge to go up to some of my professors and ask them "Are you CovertProfessor?" If such a thing happened to you, would you be honest about your internet identity? —Babhari

2012-03-08 13:00:42   Could be...either way its retracted :) —PeterBoulay

2012-03-10 11:28:15   Thanks for the encouragement. PS sometimes I wonder if I ever had you as a professor... —argyle

2012-03-10 21:43:04   I swore I responded in a similar to your query... Someone at the company looks at it and makes the determination. If a violation occurs they send a photo of the light red with the front tires before the line, and then a photo of the car in the intersection with the light still red, and a close up of plate —StevenDaubert

2012-03-12 15:39:40   Thanks. I'm bummed about it, but life goes on. —TomGarberson

2012-03-15 10:37:33   Sorry about the whitewashing. I was in consolidation mode. Funny thing is, I think I was the one who wrote that comment about HuffPost criticism in the first place. Can't remember, though. Anyway, I'll get back to getting along well again! —justincox22

  • Actually, I wrote the original text and WL added the link. Glad to hear, though, we can continue to move forward. I think your site, and you in particular, have done a lot of good work, particularly with the Occupy movements. But that doesn't mean that there isn't room for criticism. The page should reflect the varying views that the Davis community has of Patch. —cp

2012-03-15 21:43:50   Thanks for the comment CP. Honestly, with all the negativity lately, I've been a bit burned out on contributing, although I've done some work on Sacwiki here and there. Still, my comments tonight are intended to be constructive. sritern's edits were clearly problematic, but I honestly saw a good portion of that edit war unnecessary, especially that last series of rapid reverts. But still, I get your point about the contributions. If you'll make an effort to reduce the fighting, kind sir, I'll happily start actively contributing again. —jefftolentino

2012-03-15 22:01:57   The letter makes it seem like it. "Officially closed" on Feb 28. —MeggoWaffle

2012-03-15 23:31:51   Never mind about the Kony stuff, how are you ? I remember asking you 6months ago if you have tried KetMoRee's food yet, but you said no. I am wondering if that has changed? —ndah100

2012-03-17 12:08:59   Thanks. I put some more comments there, and just summarized them into a post on the Vanguard's bulletin board here: http://davisvanguard.org/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=2&id=534&Itemid=192#534 —DonShor

  • Don, re: There is no way a bacterium can insert its genetic material into a plant in nature. They aren’t even in the same category of organism, much less order, family, genus, or species. Absolutely not true, you'd be surprised at how DNA shuffles around. See horizontal gene transfer. I know several examples of transfer between bacteria and eukaryotes. Excuse a nitpick from a scientist on that sentence, but DNA is pretty amazing, and plants have crazy genomes. Otherwise, I completely agree with your point that it's virtually impossible for it to happen and be selected for, much less isolated by us, in the wild. -ES
    • I should have known better than to say "there is no way"! Thanks. DS

2012-03-17 21:32:55   Good point. I was more concerned that somebody with little life experience might think that they couldn't get care without insurance or paperwork. Couple that with the lack of comprehension of the frailty of life found in the same group, and it can lead to tragedy that could have been avoided. It's a good point to make, however: 911 also dispatches the closest EMT on priority transportation to your location; you'll likely see a medical professional (although not a doctor) quicker than you could driving yourself in. —JabberWokky

2012-03-18 12:43:50   Thanks!. I'll try to add some links to it next time I get motivated. —MikeyCrews

2012-03-18 17:21:19   Here's the FAA rule,

  • Code of Federal Regulations

    Part 91 GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES

    Subpart B—Flight Rules

    General

    Sec. 91.119

    Minimum safe altitudes: General.

    Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

    (a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

    (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

    (c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

    (d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—

    (1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

    (2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.]

(c) would be the appropriate paragraph. I've followed cars on Road 105 while practicing slow flight. The first time I maintained a 600' distance. After thinking about it, I realized that drivers would have no way of knowing the distance and might report me anyway, so I don't do it anymore. —JimStewart

2012-03-20 18:09:57   That's interesting. One of the Amazon warehouses is in Nashville, and I know people who work there and love the environment. I'm forwarding that article to them. —JabberWokky

2012-03-20 22:11:08   Or, TG likes to talk to us —ndah100

2012-03-20 22:14:49   You like dosirak? I once had their spicy chicken, and don't get me wrong I love spicy food, I always eat it, at work, anywhere. But dosiraks spicy chicken, I don't know what's with it, it makes my stomach feel not right every time. I first had it, my stomach was not feeling well. I go back 2 weeks later thinking it wouldn't happen, but I was wrong. I since have never gone back to dosirak. —ndah100

2012-03-22 07:19:55   Are other shops in between shutting down? Maybe they are buying out that whole side to make a larger store? I don't know why Whole Foods would kill em if Pinkberry didn't :-( —OliviaY

2012-03-22 10:12:16   I am pretty sure I read that as "Davis is a...". Pre-coffee editing no-good, no-how. Thanks for the catch. I am now one with the bean. —JabberWokky

2012-03-24 13:15:18   Thanks for helping my profile out. I'm still getting the hang of how to link pages. —AlexHirsch

2012-03-26 15:53:14   Was going to finish that one but I got stuck on a long call...it has been modified —PeterBoulay

2012-03-26 16:35:23   Thanks...sometimes I have to come back and finish edits later due to work. —PeterBoulay

2012-03-29 16:46:51   Why do you say that? —JabberWokky

2012-03-29 16:48:32   Keep in mind that when I disable them, they are able to — as it says in the notice — edit this one entry to seek assistance. —JabberWokky

2012-03-29 16:57:49   I have an urge (with a grin on my face) to also point out that you could read the first sentence on that page. However, instead I'll note that you're far from the first to see an edit pop up on RC from a "disabled account" and jump to the same conclusion. I think at least a couple people have forgotten twice. It's one of those easy to forget exceptions. —JabberWokky

2012-03-29 17:07:08   'hfuhhoijhrljw 98yu423ji24f08u 932kledwlkj eq;lk qwdp[`2]p —JabberWokky

2012-03-29 17:10:00   Boxers or Briefs? —StevenDaubert

2012-03-30 11:26:46   Ohhh, so that was YOU I saw taking a photo of Lamppost!

(kidding) —TomGarberson

2012-04-02 10:44:49   Thanks for catching that. I was stymied in my planned prank by the limits of the software. I had it planned, but I couldn't execute it. Ah, well. —JabberWokky

2012-04-03 15:22:30   You don't think an attack based on the fact that I'm a white male is racist? Please explain. —BrentLaabs

2012-04-03 20:05:39   I don't see all those points as valid in my experience. Maybe it's different for myself because even though I am white, I have encountered some inherent discrimination by being a person with a physical disability. I, however, refuse to blame the entire non-disabled population (even if it's not specifically their fault) for a lack of curb cuts on sidewalks. —PeterBoulay

2012-04-03 20:17:08   Nope. I don't get the irony at all. Irony is usually lost on the target of the irony though, so I'm not surprised. —BrentLaabs

2012-04-03 20:41:03   Actually I'm trying to respond to your other point now by making productive edits.

So I responded to her flippant comment with another flippant comment. Her comment was obviously not intended to actually inform. At that point in time, I was thinking "'check your privilege', what does that even mean?" And her immediate conclusion is that I responded that way because I'm a white male. That is prejudice. She made a judgement about my reactions because she knows I am white and male. You may not understand my reactions because you don't disclose your identity on the wiki, but Megan definitely made a decision based on who I am and not what I said. —BrentLaabs

2012-04-04 01:43:16   It's the fact that she dismissed my comment because I'm white and male, not because I'm a jerkass. The leap in her logic goes from "Those people might need to chill and realize that one can't get everything one asks for" to being put in a group of "white males" who "brush off legitimate concern". The subtext being that I'm just like all of those other white males.

Let's assume that the name "Occupy" is a legitimate concern for the sake of argument. "Might need to chill" is still a pretty weak statement. Her response — not deleting it — not arguing that I'm wrong — not setting it off as an opposing view — no, it was, as I understand now, a statement that I didn't understand because of my privilege. It was dismissive based on who I am. Even flippant, you might say, and based on who I am.

But that's no big deal. It's that she went on to clarify that I can't understand because I'm a white man. That's when I got upset. I am aware that I enjoy special status in this society for being white and being male. There's no question of that. But her tone is so dismissive of my opinion and my status that there's no question it was a racist statement. And I just feel that the wiki should delete harmful words like that, rather than leave it on and incite these long threads.

—BrentLaabs

Amen. —JeffTolentino

2012-04-04 10:59:04   Oh, this is nowhere near the worst thing that could happen to me. In fact, because of my privilege, I can safely ignore this prejudice.

The argument has always been that her statement doesn't belong on the wiki. It still doesn't. —BrentLaabs

2012-04-04 11:13:19   Okay. Can you rewrite the section so that it's no longer an attack on one person? Or an assumption about all white males? —BrentLaabs

  • Would removing all the bulleted responses be sufficient? It seems like that would work...-Th3DrD0nn4

2012-04-05 00:07:11   I'm sorry I haven't responded to you. I appreciate the explanations. I really do. It's just... I don't know how far I want to go down the rabbit hole with this. I don't agree with you, and the reasons aren't in your argument — which is sound on its own merits — but in the philosophical assumptions you make in making your argument. I'm sensing you may have the same problems with me. Do you want to continue discussing this anyway, at this time? —BrentLaabs

2012-04-05 14:35:00   I was waiting for the editing to finish, but yes — feature a page. Otherwise it's an event. —JabberWokky

2012-04-05 15:07:16   Will you help me with my comment about the red light camera? You seem to know this town pretty well :) —Suzyjones

2012-04-05 20:05:48   Yes :) —TomGarberson

2012-04-06 02:39:00 I think I only asked you two question: what is "check your privilege", which Meggo sardonically answered for me, and asking you to explain why you didn't see her statement as racist. I think you saw the fact that I wasn't being convinced as asking questions. So I guess it really is time to go into the whole can of worms.

Okay, let's get in to the fundamental reason I don't agree with you. At its very root, it's because I'm a pragmatist. Radically so. When I was in high school, I guess I would have considered myself a romantic. But it came with my experience in the working policy arm of ASUCD. I'd see person after person come through with ideas that I generally believed in, but have no idea how to realize the idea in any kind of rational action, and well, it gets frustrating after a while.

Sure, I agree that people of color are oppressed, that white people have privilege. That's confirmed both by experience and data. And there are actions that we can take to rectify these things. If capital punishment routinely leads to extra and unnecessary punishment against people of color, why not just abolish it? We'd even save money in the process. Or if black people have less capital due to historic consequences of their ancestors servitude and deprivation of voting rights, reparations could be a reasonable possibility. While I have my doubts that it could be implemented pragmatically, at the very least it is an actual action to take that could rectify a documented problem.

But what I don't understand is an attempt to bring about social change using the politics of division. I hate identity politics. I hate identity politics because it a tool that divides people. Don't stop reading: Certainly, recognizing divisions that already exist does not create division. It's how it's applied in practice which creates the divisions.

By creating an ideology around a privileged class that responsible for the oppression of another class, you automatically create an other. Those people who are attacking us. The them that is against the we. It doesn't matter if we white folk deserve the blame. It's the act of affixing blame that intensifies divisions.

So when I turn on the news, I see tales of the liberals' War on Christmas, or the muslims building their "Terror Mosque." TV is pretty conservative. On the campus I heard endless complaints about how the University isn't admitting enough people of color.

It's not fucking helping. All of this complaining doesn't do a damn thing. If there's actual policy to go with it, fine. Or out of the world of public policy, at least something that can improve the lives of people as a whole. But more often than not, it's turns into a game of "everyone beat up the person who said something inappropriate" and "carefully worded apology I don't believe in."

As it turns out, pretty much all white people know that they have privilege in this country. And the ones who don't, well, you can't do anything about idiocy. The way Megan used "check your privilege" in her statement? It implies that I am wrong because I don't understand the life experience of others who are less privileged. That I am the other, and that I am brushing her off because I can't understand the we.

But let me offer a radical alternative to that assumption. Both of you are wrong. Attacking the name "Occupy" is simply a bad idea. The word "occupy" is simply not a tool of oppression. I can't see an evil dictator anywhere saying something akin to "I'm going to occupy you, you occupee bastards." And if you come from an occupied country, where the government routinely tortures you or denies your freedom for being from a certain ethnic group, I genuinely feel sorry for you. But changing the name does virtually nothing to actually nothing to improve the conditions over in said country.

Here's where pragmatism comes back in. If I'm from a disenfranchised group, do I: (1) Join an increasingly popular nationwide movement that wants to improve the conditions of my people along with all others who are disenfranchised, and to diminish the extreme power and wealth of those oppress us; or (2) Complain that the name makes me feel uncomfortable, uncomfortable in a way that no one can understand but one of us, so I can't take part unless they attempt a national rebranding of an established volunteer movement.

Option (2) is simply not pragmatic, not at all. If you think that being privileged makes us exempt from compromise on things we don't agree with, you're wrong. I find many politicians' support for the death penalty, for example, President Obama, morally repugnant. I'm going to vote for him anyway, because, well, that's what I can get for now. That does not mean we should not strive for better. It means that we should take what is best now.

I do not live in a idealistic world where I aim for a huge, romantic world revolution. I look for best available solutions. And I hope that little by little, pragmatically, we finally crack the world's shell, and bring about the world revolution. So, I checked my privilege, and decided that if I was in a similar life to yours, I would still disagree with you. Maybe I would be feel better if the name was changed. Maybe I would think of it as a way to take back the word, and occupy the occupiers. But either way, my pragmatic side would prevail and I'd support the Occupy Movement.

I'm not really clear as to whether the assumption is that because of my white male privilege I cannot understand the situation, or that I brushed off the concerns because as a white male I wouldn't try and comprehend another view. But the thing is, I did try to understand it from another point of view, since walking in another man's shoes is at the basis of morality. And as to the former question, the homeland of my ancestors was occupied by a foreign power for 300 years, and only got independence last century. But, you wouldn't know that about me, because you just assumed an ethnic profile about me based on what you know about white male privilege.

Saying that privilege exists is a fact. Saying that someone is exercising it, like so many other members of their group, is an allegation and a stereotype. Which is where we come back to identity politics. The lines are sometimes vague and indistinct, but they are there. The line between promoting one's own group's standing, and diminishing another group. Which is why I can't stand identity politics in practice.

It turns out that this matter was at the heart of ASUCD's dispute with UCSA, where, through some strange twist of fate, I ended up in the eye of the storm. UCSA, through a feedback relationship with USSA, is primarily an identity politics organization. They really wanted to bring affirmative action back, pass the Dream Act, and spend time accusing the Regents of not caring about students, especially ethnic minority students. You know, issues that Schwarzenegger would veto in a heartbeat. ASUCD even voted to support a graduate student issue because it actually seemed like the only pragmatic goal.

Unfortunately, no one in UCSA wanted to do normal political lobbying. You know, going to assemblymembers, giving them proposals for laws, and sitting down and talking like normal human beings. Because they didn't understand — couldn't understand — and because it was much more fun to yell at people, they organized protest events, which always felt ridiculous and shoestring. And it's not that I hate activists — the tail of the curve is necessary for any real social change. It's that they didn't do the pragmatic things, too. And that was really too bad, because I so, so badly wanted them to succeed. In fact, I still pray for them to succeed, because students so badly need adequate represenation and good ideas at the capitol. But when it comes down to it, I stood virtually alone in supporting UCSA at the end in ASUCD, because so many conservatives in were turned off and wedged out by the identity politics.

I know that's amazingly off-topic, but it means that I've been thinking about these issues for years, and have radically different conclusions than you have. So to me, my comment had nothing at all to do with privilege or brushing off criticism. It is my recommendation as a policy analyst that the people calling for a name change to chill. Because creating a wedge issue here gains them nothing, and in fact weakens a movement that aims to help them. Because asking for this is not pragmatic — they cannot get everything they want from this one movement.

And so, all of the allegations of white privilege are not related to my actions at all. They were assumptions made about my actions based on a profile. A stereotype. A prejudice. I suppose that this is easier to swallow than the other alternative: that she is wrong. Racism is always easier than the truth.

—BrentLaabs

  • I wholeheartedly agree with Brent's message here. —JT
    • Yes, I get it that people are defending the assertion that MW is a racist, as they have been doing all along. I am appalled, disappointed, and discouraged. —CovertProfessor
      • I'll defend the other side... it is trivializing an incredibly serious charge to use it in that situation. It was a racial statement, not racist. I can absolutely see why it would upset: there are two ways to view racism, by individual and by group. People who hold one view tend to think the other view is naive or unaware (and sometimes that is true). Flinging charges when there is a fundamentally different view of racial models means that the gap can never be bridged. And yes, that means there will be implication of racism by group, which people who see it as an individual issue translate to a personal charge of racism. But to disregard the fact that it was not a personal charge is either disingenuous, simply ignorant (not a bad thing), or an act of willful activism. If I may: Brent, do you think M is racist, or that the philosophical view of racial relations that is common and that she subscribes to — due to the way it applies assumptions to groups by skin color — is inherently racist? I do understand that you could commute, but a little abstraction here could go a long way toward reengaging in a meaningful discussion. -jw
      • CP, If you don't like the term racist, that's fine. The bottom line is MW made a generalization about BL based on both race and sex. She made assumptions about BL's individual views, based on a racial stereotype about a group, regardless of how privileged that group may or may not be perceived. Sure, BL made a glib remark about "chilling out" but the "typical white male" comment that MW responded with did nothing to improve the situation, let alone defend anyone's fight against oppressive or hurtful language. To me, it’s discouraging that you're defending that sort of attitude at all. —JT
        • Wording matters. It's not just that I "don't like" the term racist, it's that it's a very strong accusation that should be used with extreme care. The last time an editor was accused of being a racist, everyone had a fit about it, but suddenly, it's acceptable (as MW pointed out). And what MW said — after two dismissive comments from BL — was "Hmm... another white male who, exercising one of the many luxuries of his privilege, brushes off legitimate concerns. Hilarious." She did not say "typical white male." Again, wording matters. —CovertProfessor
          • I would say that reply from M was fairly antagonistic. There are no saints here, especially once it got personal. -jw
            • Somewhat antagonistic, yes, which in my view is understandable given the two immediately preceding brush-off comments from BL. But antagonistic ≠ racist (I understand that you weren't saying that they are the same, just trying to return to the point at hand — there is certainly a lot of antagonism to go around in this discussion and others). —cp
              • Very true. -jw
          • Hey CP, I've actually tried to be pretty careful about using the term "racist." I agree, its a pretty strong word that implies fairly extreme bigotry, and I don't think Meggowaffle really exhibited that. I checked through my edits and I don't think I ever called her a racist outright, (please correct me if I missed something though). I think maybe the closest I got to calling her a racist was saying I called "somebody out on a potentially racial or sexist comment." I did say that MW stereotyped BL and made generalizations about BL based on race and gender, and I still think that is very accurate. That said, if you want to split hairs on the "typical white male" comment, I'll give you that one. Meggo didn't type the word "typical" in her initial comment to Brent, and its my fault for not going back to the original version and checking. She did point out that BL was white and male, however, and in my opinion, she still made assumptions about BL's privilege and capacity for empathy. I still believe it was stereotyping and generalizations based on race and gender, which was the main intent of my last comment. Hope that help clear things up a little. —JT
            • Twice, on this very page, you agreed with BL's assertions. BL said, "But her tone is so dismissive of my opinion and my status that there's no question it was a racist statement" and you said, "Amen." BL said, "And so, all of the allegations of white privilege are not related to my actions at all. They were assumptions made about my actions based on a profile. A stereotype. A prejudice. I suppose that this is easier to swallow than the other alternative: that she is wrong. Racism is always easier than the truth." You said, "I wholeheartedly agree with Brent's message here." So, perhaps you need to be more careful about which passages you say that you agree with. By the way, today I came across something that I think we can all agree is genuinely racist. —cp
              • Cool, CP, if you want to split hairs again, sure you win. Yes, Brent said those things, and I made statements supporting him. If you really want to pin me down on his use of the word "racist" I'll agree again, I think its a little over the top. At the same time, I was not the one being stereotyped here, and when I try to see it from his point of view, I can understand being pretty upset about the assumptions MW was making based on him being white and male. To him, I'm sure it feels like a racist statement, and I support his right to be upset about it. I'm choosing not to use the word "racist" myself, but I still support BL. —JT
                • Splitting hairs??? No, I am taking your statements at face value. If you want to reinterpret them now, fine. In fact, I am happy to hear you say that you don't think the word "racist" is appropriate for this context. However, the fact remains that when BL first used that term, I was the only one who spoke up to defend MW against this charge (later, a couple of others did as well), whereas you and everyone else supported BL. Again, this contrasts with the last such incident where everyone was outraged when the r-word came out. If you had a problem with the word, you should have said so, not said "amen" and "I wholeheartedly agree." —CovertProfessor
                  • Ok CP, I think this is getting blown out of proportion. I'm going to just stick to what I said before: I'm personally not choosing to use the term "racist", but I understand why Brent was upset enough to use it, and still support him. —JT
                    • Ok. I see a difference, but not much of one, especially when you seem to be putting all of the blame on MW and none on BL. —cp
                      • Professor, you've spent your last few exchanges with me picking apart my comments and wordings now. If you really want to start going into the details of whether or not I put all the blame on MW and none on BL, that's fine, but for now I think you're going to have to have the rest of that conversation without me. You can go back through my edits on your own time and decide for yourself, as I don't think any response I give you on that is going to change your mind. —JT

2012-04-06 23:24:26   I knew someone would ask why I deleted Online Pool Supply from the pool store section. I own both Platinum Pool Care and Online Pool Supply. Platinum Pool Care is our local store for Davis customers only. Online Pool Supply is not tailored for local use. —PatrickNewton

2012-04-11 15:45:52   *sigh*...fixed —PeterBoulay

2012-04-11 15:47:12   Some mornings it's not worth chewing through the leather straps :) —PeterBoulay

2012-04-11 21:45:26   Oh okay thanks! Not sure if this is where Im supposed to reply..still trying to figure this thing out. —MoeHirani

2012-04-19 10:40:36   Thanks CP. I saw the horribly thought out Featured Page and had a kneejerk "revert it" feeling, and decided not to edit. Your edits cleaned it up nicely and pushed it down toward being a decent featured page. Good topic, good intent, just bad (or not well thought out) execution. —JabberWokky

2012-04-19 13:13:58   Police officers can only be disciplined for stuff in their personnel files. There is no way in hell that the Kroll report will make it into those files... the police officers will fight tooth and nail to prevent that. The best we can hope for is that the internal affairs report reaches similar conclusions. As an aside, it is possible that the public will see part or all of the internal affairs report. They are generally considered confidential and exempt from public record act requests, but they can still be subpoenaed. You can bet the ACLU will try to get ahold of as much of the report as possible in their lawsuit against the university. —WilliamLewis

2012-04-19 13:43:59   I was basing my statement on the conclusion reached by the Atlantic in the article I linked to a few edits ago. "So what happens to Lt. Pike? Once placed on administrative leave, he was subject to an internal affairs investigation. The law requires that its findings alone can bear on personnel actions, never mind all the useful evidence collected by the independent consultants, or the analysis performed by the panel of esteemed statesmen." I agree that public pressure generated by the report probably influenced Spicuzza's decision to resign, but I have my reservations about calling the independent investigation anything other than impotent in any official capacity. Given the resistance shown by UC Davis in fully cooperating with the independent review force, my suspicion was that they hoped it would be more of a smokescreen than anything else. —ScottMeehleib

2012-04-19 14:01:04   After thinking it over, I suppose one could come to a less pessimistic conclusion than I did. But it seems to me, that, since both the internal and independent investigations were performed seemingly concurrently and without interaction, the independent one cannot be seen as having an affect on the other in even an unofficial sense. In the best case scenario, UC Davis was actually trying to get out as much truth as possible in the independent review, not because of possible disciplinary measures, but rather to put pressure on responsible parties to resign without the agonizingly long process that firing people apparently takes. So if that is your take on things, I wouldn't mind that being added as a possible interpretation. —ScottMeehleib

2012-04-20 20:47:59   Thanks for really de-bolding Monticello. :) —jsbmeb

2012-04-23 16:25:40   Picnic Day 2012 looks excellent now. It good to see a picnic day picture collage. The last few years it was just bare bones in terms of photos.. —SimonFung

2012-04-23 20:49:46   JW should be aware now —StevenDaubert

2012-04-23 20:53:01   I just killed the account. Thanks for the cleanup. —JabberWokky

2012-04-25 22:23:39   hi CP, hope all is well. If you look at the DPD log(apr20,5am-apr21,5am) on pg7 of 11, you'll see that the unicorn rider was reported to police, but was 'unable to locate', so does that mean the unicorn rider is a fugitive!? —ndah100

2012-04-26 00:15:11   That is the third time somebody has spammed the wiki with links to that group. —JabberWokky

2012-04-28 20:29:04   I've also found the sudden surge of comments on a page I had never heard of interesting. It is also interesting that many of them have similar ip addresses, and a couple are the exact same. Maybe I'm just a conspiracy theorist ;) —LoriOrf

2012-04-28 20:58:13   I wasn't sure if I should do anything or passively let it happen, So I'm patiently watching it unfold. —LoriOrf

2012-05-01 15:21:31   I think making a Wheelchair Accessibility page is a great idea. I also made the same assumption as you; spending a lot of time with a person in a wheelchair has been a real eye-opener. My friend has a giant ADA guidebook full of required sizes and dimensions for tables, and it can really be quite confusing. Unfortunately, you often can't tell if a table is accessible just by looking at it. For example, we rarely consider that most of us lean down slightly every time we take a bite. But my friend is paralyzed immediately from the arms down so unless he can get very close to the surface of the table, eating can be quite a chore. Central supports underneath the tables often block the ability to slide wheelchairs far enough under. Also, sometimes the surfaces themselves are too high.

In any case, I think it would be a good idea to start off with a page that simply lists businesses that make things hard on people with wheelchairs (tables too close together, not enough accessible seating, blocked wheelchair ramps, awkward table surface heights, etc.), and then contrast those with a list of businesses that are unusually accommodating. That would be a good base, and from there we can try to hopefully research which places are actually out of compliance instead of simply inconvenient by citing relevant ADA documents. —ScottMeehleib

2012-05-01 15:42:14   I just noticed that we already have an entry called Mobility Impaired Access. How does that name strike you? I don't feel like I'm very good at naming entries tbh. We may as well keep the content of that page, in any case, and just expand the theme to include the bad as well as the good. —ScottMeehleib

2012-05-09 11:36:05   Hey now! I don't want to be associated with Dunning any more than you do! Hehehehe. —JabberWokky

2012-05-10 15:40:07   I'm a supporter of Ron Paul, but I also think it's weird that he didn't know about the "Incident." If anything, you would have hoped somebody in his campaign would have briefed him on it before he came to Davis! :/ —ScottMeehleib

2012-05-10 18:25:34   Hey, CP (I'm posting the same on Jabberwocky's page). I just reviewed my intern’s recent edits, and saw your comments. I’ve spoken to him directly about his poor judgment in choosing a username.

While acknowledging that the username was inappropriate and mean, I hope that actions speak louder than words. I’m personally a huge supporter of Daviswiki – hell, I contributed $100 to the Localwiki campaign – and I’ve made it a point to put a lot of our info on Daviswiki, even when it doesn’t benefit our organization. A lot of organizations wouldn’t even bother to create a list of places you could use their product – they’d just have that on their website. And the easy thing for us to do would just be to make a plain text list on our page, but we’ve created about 15 of the businesses’ pages, and intend to create more. Sure, 15 is a small number, and it’s not as if we did a lot of journalism on those pages. I’m not trying to claim any medals. But I hope it shows a lot more commitment to the wiki than most businesses or individuals would make.

Also, may I note that one of our other interns used the username “davisrox”? That’s positive, right? (I’m being lighthearted, in case you can’t read the tone ). By the way, I’ve created instructions for all future team members to use their actual names.

I can’t read your tone, by the way – I’m not sure how serious you are when you’re talking about this username creating an impression about the entire organization. I understand that the people who represent an organization inevitably contribute to the organization’s perception, but as I said, I hope you can look past the words to the actions.

And if there are other things that I’ve missed that you think are problematic, or if things come up in the future…you know that you could always drop me a line? A quick “Hey, your intern’s username is kind of jerky” would be fine. One of the things I really like about the wiki is how much editors engage each other in conversation. One of the things that makes that username mean is that it’s an anonymous, unproductive criticism of Daviswiki, without trying to engage in any meaningful conversation. I’m trying to represent the opposite by engaging, with this post, and if you do the same and drop me a line in the future, it will make it easier for me to remedy anything that comes up. —NicholasBarry

2012-05-11 07:23:40   I agree. Obviously that's something he'll have to decide on his own, since if I told him to do it, it wouldn't reflect a personal commitment to the wiki! Maybe I should start filtering internship applicants by number of wiki edits prior to applying? Hehehehehe... —NicholasBarry

2012-05-12 12:03:51   Thanks for adding a section for former organizations to the Rainbow Community page. Sometimes I completely forget to do that. —ScottMeehleib

2012-05-14 07:51:16   It could be like how some companies devote resources, including staff time, to improving open source projects like PHP or Apache. Davis companies could be expected to devote some time to building on the Wiki - it certainly drives lots of business to Davis companies. —NicholasBarry

2012-05-15 20:05:14   Hey, did anybody put up a good scan of the nasty political mailer? —JabberWokky

2012-05-15 22:08:22   Those mailers say way more about the people who sent them than the subjects. Jon Li and Clint Parish will never hold elected office around here if people remember the disgusting stuff they've published. —WilliamLewis

2012-05-15 22:27:52   While I agree with William, if it's actually a problem, I have no issue with posting it after the election. Documenting it is more important, at least for me. —JabberWokky

2012-05-21 19:20:58   Yeah, I figured an analogy would be a bad idea. —JabberWokky

2012-05-21 20:50:47   So what do you think about ykarmi's changes to Raja's? I took and put up the picture of Harmeet and Taranbir with their blessings and I really don't know what ykarmi's intent was when he/she took them off. It looks like ykarmi built a website for them and figured he could remake the wiki page the way he wanted it to be. I don't quite know what to think. —JimStewart

2012-05-22 14:38:24   Your picture on the Target page is awesome. —JenniferCook

2012-05-22 15:27:57   That Prius photo is an absolute beauty. —justincox22

Thanks for the heads up. Somebody edited the live code and did a typo. I've informed the coders to fix it. -jw

2012-05-22 20:25:32   Should be fixed, oops! Thanks for the report! —PhilipNeustrom

2012-05-25 23:48:27   Those Arboretum pages are nice pages, but severely underlinked. So I might as well throw a ton of links at them, right? The Nav table design is the best I can do with the classes I've been given — I might have liked a font 1px bigger, and maybe a white text header, but I have to make do with the classes we have. I'm wondering if we could do some sort of online tour of the Arboretum on the wiki, but I think we'd need more photos, and that's one thing I can't contribute from far away. —BrentLaabs

2012-05-29 14:22:20   you disappoint with your latest edit. Library staff are all volunteers, and Piyuk isn't a) editing from an organization account and b)is just providing generic info about the library and any modifications / closures to the schedules. Folks who care enough about the wiki will be able to see the edits, and folks who don't care will be able to understand the info is from a volunteer at the library and not some random. —StevenDaubert

  • Why didn't you just revert the edit instead of complaining? If you disagree with an edit, revert it. —BrentLaabs

  • I realize I am a constant source of disappointment to you, SD, but I have given up trying to satisfy your whims. In this case, the editor was creating a link to a non-existent page and implying a user name that was in fact non-existent, making it difficult for the less technically-savvy to communicate with the editor directly. There are other ways to indicate that one is a volunteer associated with the library, as I did on the page, hoping that the editor would follow suit. —CovertProfessor

    I think what I meant to say was: Sounds to me like you could do some outreach. I'm happy the people who constitute the library staff even bothered to respond to questions / start posting little updates about the house when I told them about the wiki and some patrons with a question. You could help said editor put the random hour change notices somewhere up top prominently, and explain the wiki conventions etc etc. I got them to show up on the wiki try not to chase them off when they make edits relevant to the community. I really don't think people are too confused... if they ask a question of library staff, they probably expect it on the page they left it on.

I think doing outreach is a really good idea — go for it. You can also explain to them about links and communicating on user pages while you're at it. —CovertProfessor

2012-05-29 20:19:01   I thought page includes like IntegrateComments were the universal sign of "this page should be fixed by someone else, because I'm too lazy to do so." —BrentLaabs

2012-05-29 23:06:03   To you and Jabberwocky: I have no problem with what either of you did on that page. Kemble Pope's assertion was factually incorrect, and he hasn't acknowledged that. So I felt that should be corrected publicly. All he has to do is come back, look at the edit history, and see that he made an erroneous assumption. I doubt that he will. —DonShor

2012-06-01 23:17:11   There are too many commissioner endorsements to list individually, so the standard that I am following is to list a count of current commissioners. Would you be able to do that based on Greenwald's printed materials. —GregKuperberg

2012-06-01 23:24:32   By the way, I collated the names of all 149 current city commissioners into a text file, which I would be happy to share with you. —GregKuperberg

2012-06-04 08:57:00   That's not my logic, but is close to it. I figured since it is a core change, and given all the me-toos, an argument against should at least be fielded. —JabberWokky

2012-06-04 09:18:39   Maybe just answer the question on WL's page. —jefftolentino

2012-06-05 10:57:09   Please refrain from Reverting the Davis ChamberPAC page. I spent several hours this morning trying to edit the page to be fact based, not hyperbole and innuendo. For all I know, you are Sue Greenwald's husband continuing to vandalize our community our of spite. Follow the Wiki guidelines and edit collaboratively or don't edit at all. —KemblePope

2012-06-05 11:18:08   I bet you teach Trolling 101. —jimi

2012-06-05 16:28:25   So you're saying I won't live beyond December 2117? I accept your challenge. —MikeyCrews

2012-06-05 17:43:53   I may have been cross threaded to the purpose of the page. I'm a wee bit out of it right now. I have had one of the most stressful 24 hours I think I've ever suffered. Profound and sudden (unexpected) disasters with close friends, family and work. Including somebody literally getting hit by a car on the way to the airport, leaving another stranded in a foreign country. It's been rough. —JabberWokky

2012-06-07 12:33:04   Hi, I was reading a thread where you accused me of being affiliated with a business because I left a positive review for them. It is not true. I'm a log time business owner in Davis and I have read plenty of threads here where you have initiated and provoked conflict through false accusations and bias editing. I don't see how this is in the mission of the wiki. You are a cancer to the wiki, to the honest part of the Davis community and the main reason this wiki has the reputation of being shanghai'd by wackos. If you plan on continually dictating from behind your shroud, use some tact, common sense and decency. I'm not trying to engage in any kind of "dialogue" with you. —LWolk

  • These edits show the falsity of your claims. Sadly, you insist on deleting the evidence of your lies. This lie reminds me of when jimi lied and said that his business was closed because he didn't like a negative comment that had been left and was looking for an excuse to delete the page for Bowerbird Remodeling and Construction instead of replying constructively to the complaint. All the evidence suggests that you are in fact associated with Bowerbird Remodeling and Construction. If you are not, then — given that you have gone out of your way to insult me and to deny otherwise — you should explain why you were making those edits to the page, edits that look like they are made by someone associated with the business. You could also explain why you and jimi mysteriously edit from the same IP address, which you claim is from "downtown Davis wi-fi hotspots." Sorry, that is not credible that you and jimi just "happen" to be editing from the same hotspot. Perhaps there is an explanation, but you have yet to offer it. —CovertProfessor

-Kindly remove my business name from this post. - James Dunaway

2012-06-07 17:18:05   Impersonation of Lois Wolk on DavisWiki would be doubleplusuncool. The Wolk family could be asked if there is any connection. —GregKuperberg

2012-06-09 16:04:03   Thanks for linking the DOERS page in from the outdoor activities page/etc! I hadn't figured out how to fit it in properly yet, it was a pleasant surprise to see it all done already! —markspiller

2012-06-11 11:54:32   The responses you've made towards JT on why a page shouldn't be deleted might go well here: Talk Pages/Active. Though typing it out, I realize "active" was a bad choice. My quick thought is it's at least an organizational hub, or like a master "to do" list in things that were started but not finished? It might also be a good centralized spot for other people to chime in whether a talk page should remain open or just be dismissed. (ie, the Freshman Guide/Talk page. Personally, I think "this needs updating" is no different than probably a good chunk of wiki content). —EdWins

2012-06-11 12:58:12   Makes sense to me. —EdWins

2012-06-11 15:38:25   at this point I'm just morbidly curious as to how Ed a relatively sharp adult in Grad school justifies to himself removal of my comments to another user... —StevenDaubert

2012-06-12 17:28:21   Don's comment is not only inaccurate but completely inappropriate to the page. First off, the Chamber CREATED the DDBA in order to allow more focus for downtown issues. Secondly, how is he calculating "retailers"? For example, does he include restaurants? Thirdly, why are retailers a "preferred" category of business owners? Aren't service providers like investment advisors, insurance agents, banks, credit unions, real estate agents, mortgage brokers, lawyers, doctors and dentists also important to note?

Point being, Don's narrow perspective is distracting and counterproductive to the point of this page... to educate Davis about what the Chamber of Commerce does, what it has done, who it represents and it's place in the Davis-universe. —KemblePope

I actually found the figure interesting, and I'd be very interested to learn more. Without context - many of the things you mentioned here, Kemble - it could indeed be misleading. But, in the usual style of the wiki, that says to me that more information, rather than less, would be the appropriate remedy. Assuming the number of retailers is accurate, what percent of the downtown retailers is that? Is it a different proportion than those in other industries? If so, why? If there is some problem related to retailers, getting some info on that would be really interesting. —TomGarberson

FYI:

The Executive Director may wish to update the directory, or provide updated membership information. Note (responding to comment below): the data above was compiled by adding up the members listed on the directory as of April 2012. It was in furtherance of a point I was making on the Vanguard that the Chamber does not have a strong retail membership, and that the retail members of the DDBA tend not to be members of the Chamber. —DonShor

2012-06-12 17:57:09   #1 - I think that it is absolutely unfair and hurts the DavisWiki community that you can parade around here anonymously disparaging other people's characters and hard work. I don't think that you should be allowed to post anonymously any more. I am not "white washing". You, and others, however, are trying to intimidate me with spurious and copious amounts of opinion, "facts" with no primary source, and broad characterizations about how the "community" "feels".

#2 - The Davis Chamber of Commerce is a membership organization and thus our membership fluctuates monthly depending on whether existing members reinvest, go out of business, change locations or new members invest. Our database does not have a search function for "downtown" or "nothing but retail" (Cartridge World is in Office Machines/Supplies; Helmus Optometry which sells glasses is listed elsewhere and the list goes on and on) because those terms are meaningless for our purposes. Visitors come to us looking for reputable hotels, car repair, a good dentist or available meeting spaces. Our members look to other members for business to business services. I CAN NOT COMMIT TO REGULARLY COMBING THROUGH OUR DATABASES ON A MONTHLY BASIS TO PROVIDE STATISTICS THAT HAVE VERY LITTLE VALUE TO ANYONE, CAN YOU?

#3 - If you are really interested in sharing WHO we are, then the answer is simple: http://web.davischamber.com/allcategories —KemblePope

2012-06-14 11:32:25   What is it that you feel we owe you? —ScarlettW

2012-06-14 11:41:25   Sorry, but my mother will not be meeting anyone from the wiki for tea. Frankly, for an old woman, this kind of prying is scary and she has other things to worry about. Please figure out what you want, clean up this BS and focus on something else. —ScarlettW

2012-06-14 13:34:27   NOT A FAN OF phonetikally ??!?!?!?

golly —StevenDaubert

  • I guess it is fairly phonetic. :-) Please feel free to restore it. —cp

2012-06-14 13:50:49   I wish I was that clever. Entirely accidental :P —PhilipNeustrom

2012-06-14 13:59:40   Again, you call us "Bowerbird people" when all my mother wanted to do is leave a positive comment for them because they did good work and she recommends them. She only wanted to contribute. If being a customer makes us "Bowerbird People" then so be it. However, the BS that you keep perpetuating and the attempts to find her and meet her in person is inappropriate at best. —ScarlettW

2012-06-14 14:01:59   Then leave us alone. —ScarlettW

2012-06-14 14:06:32   Haha I was really curious how long that would stay up. -Th3DrD0nn4

2012-06-14 14:24:18   She deleted her account so now that she can't defend herself, you have the LWolk page to use as a pinata. She's been LWolk alot longer than anyone else around here so please have a little tact and decency. —ScarlettW

2012-06-14 14:57:42   As of about 3pm PST, an attempt to make a new account with a certain user name gave me the error message of "User name already exists!" I'd guess that disabling the account would effectively 'free" the user name up, so I doubt it was deleted. —EdWins

2012-06-14 15:16:30   There's a way anybody can. I'm on my phone... when I get back, I'll try to recall how and let everybody know for this and future cases. —JabberWokky

2012-06-14 15:18:31   (~ 10 mins) —JabberWokky

2012-06-14 15:25:55   The account was disabled. —PhilipNeustrom

2012-06-14 16:14:49   Okay, tentatively closed the door on that mess, time for a mental reset. Try this. —JabberWokky

2012-06-14 16:19:28   I love it! And thanks for your help. —CovertProfessor

2012-06-14 17:01:00   that was a strong delete

sorry ¬_¬ —StevenDaubert

2012-06-14 17:01:33   it's pop culture, from Chappelles show —StevenDaubert

  • Ah, ok, glad we were in agreement. Old fart prof here, doesn't always get the references. —cp

2012-06-15 08:44:27   I wasn't sure if the theft was worthy of Davis Pedicab's upper info section now that it had been recovered, so I figured I'd just kill the alert. I see the value, though. Thanks for adding. —justincox22

2012-06-25 14:16:46   they are editing to parse down the promoted specials which run contrary to the 501.3(c) standing, please do not include the specials in the changed information if you feel the need to edit the page before Ruby has finished the overhaul —StevenDaubert

2012-06-25 14:39:46   they are new, and they are overreacting cause they don't want DW to have to deal with IRS shenanigans. They were unaware of a) user pages (nice of you to leave messages there and b) the 501.3(c) restrictions

you are neutral-negative in your dealings here... which is the crux of my ire in this specific situation, we want neutral-positive! —StevenDaubert

2012-06-25 14:40:33   also Pricing != specials... Apparently IRS has a fondness for using advertised specials on nonprofit stuff as a catalyst for harassment —StevenDaubert

2012-06-25 16:22:58   the owners of BlueBird have been Davis local for what was it at least a decade+ so I cut them some slack. I was just doing the Temple Grandin Philosophy on things... They didn't know they were tromping all over established norms, and IRS regulations and were adamant they would rectify stuff! I just let them know what was going on, and how to find ones user page, and I also nicely innuendo'd a couple times about WTTW/BO

that being said I'm sure you noticed my "I look forward to having you edit something on the wiki that isn't related to your business" line that I've pulled out a couple times... —StevenDaubert

2012-06-26 11:11:35   actually you should have left that link out

Bluebird is NOT a taxi service, it's a limo service

Taxi implies on demand, bluebird is reservation only (they are have a different licensing than the cabs / are beholden to different boards / are prevented from picking up flag downs/ etc ) —StevenDaubert

2012-06-26 12:28:14   perhaps it could be watered down from Taxis to Transportation? I dunno I feel like I'm splitting hairs at this point even thou while both transportation it's apples and oranges.

Charter companies also have to take more certification that taxi, and the drivers have to have special class of license (which in turn reduces insurance b/c the state certified that said driver is more trained etc etc) —StevenDaubert

2012-06-27 17:32:26   Thank you for improving the placement of that photo on the DFC page. I suppose I'll eventually place enough of them to figure out better layouts. —DougWalter

2012-07-09 09:55:50   In response to your supershuttle query, they will take you from sfo to Davis. My husband did it twice. —LoriOrf

2012-07-12 23:48:37   At the moment I only have access to a regularly-sized computer on a very limited basis and don't have the time to rearrange. Also I think I deleted the volunteers section because we have a gajillion volunteers and I didn't like the inaccurate representation, wanting all volunteers to feel equally acknowledged, etc. So I think it might be ok to just leave the volunteers part off and stick to ministers (core volunteers) for pictures and past pictures of. But I'll totally understand if you need to undo or edit etc. what I did to make it fit wiki traditions.

In other news, Fresh Spin Farm is having a garlic tasting at 8pm on Saturday July 14th and you're invited. I'll attach a flier to the events page with more information. —Angel.York

2012-07-16 16:10:02   Whenever you drop semi-detailed information about where you were at a certain time I'm always entertained by considering it to see if it could give away your identity. Not that I'm trying to pry into your identity or anything. Just pondering. Do you find yourself carefully parsing everything you write, when there's a time and/or place involved, before you post it to make sure you don't let too much slip?

It's an interesting process of compartmentalization. I imagine it's fairly similar to the mental process I go through, or other professionals in fields subject to legal privilege and privacy rights go through, when talking about a case. Sometimes they can be interesting or instructive cases for a subject, but I find myself pausing every couple of sentences to run through what I want to say and double check that I'm not going to divulge anything I shouldn't. —TomGarberson

2012-07-26 17:08:32   my friend had a check signed over couple days ago, they did it at the bank and had no problems —StevenDaubert

2012-08-02 14:32:41   So, Sarah and I watch documentaries via a... erm... international internet source for them. Channel 4 just ran a documentary on 50 Shades of Grey (it's the number one book over there), interspersed with fairly explicit sex scenes (nude, angled away from lower genitals). We only watched the first five minutes, but during that time I suddenly lunged for the remote, backed it up and exclaimed, "Freaking A! It's Rory!" IMDB does not list it, but if it's not Arthur Darvill, it's a dead ringer... and for the purposes of a evoking a character, that's enough. Not sure we'll watch the whole thing, but it's mentally jarring to see Rory doing BDSM porn between discussions of the social implications of a book. —JabberWokky

2012-08-30 15:09:17   Sorry about Panera. I purely misread the #'s. —PeteB

2012-09-24 00:55:43   What's wrong with giving a Davis perspective on a Woodland wiki page? I imagine a future where we have vibrant wikis for all 6 cities in the area, and it would be tremendously awkward to have 6 different wiki pages all about the same location. The accounts are shared, software-wise they're basically the same, all that's changing is the URL. —ScottRitchie

2012-10-04 10:35:20   I got to talking to Max from Village cab, Apparently he now owns the name "Davis Taxi" so all these out of town taxis using the generic name... Can't..

Also I figured out how SITOA / STA / the one other works. We should make a catch all page for Cabs under those orgs... —StevenDaubert

2012-10-04 23:27:17   Thank you for catching the spam on my husband's AP Driving page! We never would have figured it out ourselves. —lunelectronique

2012-10-08 20:02:41   On Polynesia Yoga I was trying to respect her style format as was suggested awhile back when I did a similar change. —PeteB

2012-10-09 13:26:21   FYI I did NOT remove that picture from executive cleaners. I should've seen that. —PeteB

2012-10-14 18:59:47   Excuse me, but it looks like you have edited my comments out of vini wine bar. You had no right to do that. Do it again, and I'll remove yours. —DavisLurker

2012-10-17 23:24:27   Thanks for your work on the 2012 election page! :) —ScottMeehleib

2012-10-23 16:11:18   absolutely not I never said anything of that nature, I just said that I'm not going to question/hold someones baggage (not to say rape is baggage) against them. If someone comes at me with a zany quasi rude request and I'm a manager it's my job to roll with the punches and move onto the next sale, not win a non argument or make a point out of the side of my mouth, especially if I had a corporate structure hanging over me.

Don't read too deeply into my musings, it's just what popped into my head when I got done reading all four comments and I figured I would share, that way if said anonymous coward ever felt like coming back they wouldn't feel like everyone felt like they were in the wrong (notice how it's hard to figure out of thompson is male or female based on the info provided?)

Tl;Dr Nothing is cut and dried, if the comment is outlandish and the person doesn't stand by it delete it and move on, if they do stand by it great we got another person on the wiki —StevenDaubert

Fair enough. Still, if I am that Hispanic man/black woman/gay man/whatever and someone says that they don't want to deal with me only because of the group I'm in, and I'm in a group that is already a discriminated minority, I am going to have a hard time being polite about it, regardless of my job. —CovertProfessor

very very true. I have two thoughts on the matter 1) I would expect a manager to grin and bear it, they have to manage people for a living... An hourly employee not so much. 2) after reading your comment this seems kinda applicable (in more ways than one), thanks 2pac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBAZfgMK5TQ Daubert

2012-10-27 09:32:41   Thanks for the details about the wood burn regulations. It is hard not to either mindlessly support something or attack a strawman — even with good intent — when all you have are vague outlines of what might be. Empty vessels full of demons or angels. —JabberWokky

2012-10-30 13:30:12   The "important bit" that I deleted was removed intentionally because it was misleading and inaccurate. The pepper spray Pike used is only controlled in California because of its size, not its content. You can buy the same spray with the same delivery mechanism as long as the canister is 2.5 oz or smaller. If you go north to Oregon, you can buy the exact same cans Pike used. It's more of a reflection of the weird laws we have in California than anything special about the spray. Also, suggesting that Pike's misuse of the spray was criminal is an unreasonable stretch. Civil liability? Yes. Criminal liability for battery? Perhaps. But his misuse is negligent at best, not criminal. —WilliamLewis

If anything it falls (and did iirc) on the person who runs the dept. Even though Pike got a hold of and improperly deployed a weapons system he wasn't trained on or permitted to have as a professional(even with POST) isn't Criminal. Is it? Also I believe the main reason that the riot spray container is controlled (At a State level) is due to the pressure of the contents. If you discharge it on people < 6 feet away you can detach retinas or something b/c of the force and that is why they require more POST training to even be able to order it. Ignorance of the law is no excuse Daubert

And if charges had been filed, we might have had a legal determination... now we'll never know, unless something similar happens elsewhere. —cp

A legal determination of what? That his misuse (in the technical, not legal sense) of the pepper spray was criminal? The DA didn't even consider that question because it's so ridiculous. They only considered whether or not the use of pepper spray (not how it was used) was criminal given the circumstances. The Reynoso report only considered his technical misuse of pepper spray because it demonstrated a failure in training that could be remedied. —wl

Ok, "that's ridiculous" is not an argument, but I don't really feel like debating a moot point. Take the wording down if you want. —cp

2012-11-02 16:51:46   Yes, the vegan burrito is a new item at Taqueria Davis. It's not on their menu board yet but they have a small sign on the counter with the details. Haven't tried it yet though. —ScottMeehleib LOL new as of like many months ago. Anything from Dtaq is good. Daubert

2012-11-06 13:28:50   I hesitated when I did it for that specific reason (and pretty much only that reason). I kicked open the talk page for community discussion regarding public news versus compassion, but I'm pretty clear on my personal take. I moved it back on the concept that if it causes multiple people to question it, then it should probably be up there. I'll try to remember to move it back down tomorrow. —JabberWokky

2012-11-13 11:54:05   Ok sorry.... —PeteB

2012-11-13 13:45:14   Oh, I just noticed your comment about the vegan burrito on my page. Thanks for letting me know! I'll try it soon. —ScottMeehleib

2012-11-14 14:53:44   Forgot to reply to your note about the pre-election interview. Thanks. I thought it was important to sit down with her so she could elaborate on where she was coming from and why she made the decision to send it. I also agree with the thing about the HuffPo headline. It suggests there is some new news in there, but all of the sources come from the early news stories and wiki edits. Makes more sense once you get into the story, though, I guess. —justincox22

2012-11-17 23:00:46   has zindgani gotten another bite at the apple or is the last review the most current one? —StevenDaubert

2012-11-21 07:59:42   Sure, that is a good idea, but I still stick to the view that my association with Davis Wiki is that of an information source that strives to be full spectrum, on every page, to be more or less reasonable on every page. It sure is no chicken wing/meat cookbook, is it? —ConstantiaOomen

2012-11-21 22:37:02   I've always found honest ethical vegetarianism an unassailable position to hold. I really think you presented the reasoning quite well. Thank you. —JabberWokky

2012-11-22 11:47:15   Incidentally, many Amish love GM crops, as the view they don't like technology is a misconception: they aim for a simple and self-sustaining community lifestyle, and GMOs help them achieve that goal. It makes sense when you think about it. —JabberWokky

2012-11-22 15:26:26   I'd guess that it isn't Roundup/sterile seed style GM crops. I'd guess there are options if you're looking. That is, if I didn't make it clear, a few guesses. However Google gives more info: this article, plus some BBC video clips if you search for Amish GM crops. There's a certain cadence and rationale to the Amish that made sense after I'd spent time with them as friends (non-practicing members) and neighbors. I do think they are widely misunderstood: they use modern medicine and use cell phones for emergencies, just not for casual use that might disconnect them from each other. It's an interesting choice, more similar to the minimizing of possessions some people do than any kind of fear of technology. —JabberWokky

2012-11-29 14:56:12   Thank you for not comparing it to Katrina or Sandy. What is going on with Northern California media's inability to just call it a bad storm? —JabberWokky

2012-11-29 14:59:17   Oh my god, is that really happening? The media has to exaggerate everything. —CovertProfessor

2012-12-10 20:22:57   Perhaps there should be a community alert warning about the crowding of the community alert page. Teehee teehee. —LoriOrf

2012-12-11 00:19:32   A crowded Community Alert means that lots of people are updating, and that makes me happy. —BrentLaabs

2012-12-11 10:44:05   The Community Alert stuck me as amusing yesterday: By 2013, between sites like the wiki, Google Plus and Facebook, we may finally reach the pinnacle of local, global and silly discourse that was 1983's BBS community. —JabberWokky

2012-12-11 20:39:37   I was trying to think of a good photo for the Featured Page. That's a great one. —JabberWokky

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