Two States

two states!

we want two states

north and south

two, two states

40 Million Daggers!

two states!

we want two states

there's no culture

there's no spies

40 million daggers!

—Pavement

Southern California is mostly desert. The weather is mild, however there is very little annual precipitation. The vast majority of water consumed in Southern California is pumped in from elsewhere. According to the NRDC this activity accounts for up to 7% of the total energy consumed by the state every year. That is an astounding statistic. The environmental impact of owning a grass lawn in Southern California is probably comparable to that of owning an SUV. What's even more shocking is that during the severe droughts that California is prone to, Southern Californians paid the same rates or even less than their Northern counterparts.

This plundering must stop! LA is a sore on the face of this planet! Let's split the state and watch all that dirty money flow north faster than the water we pump south!

A Painting from Sandow Birk's "In Smog and Thunder: Historical works from The Great War of the Californias."

See also Norcal Rage. See also AllCal.

2004-12-11 21:33:55   Wow. Such raw hate... because of water use. Wow. I feel compelled to note that not all of southern CA is in LA. In fact, there are large parts of southern CA that are indeed isolated from LA, places that even rely on their own water resources. Shockingly enough, some people in these towns even have green lawns. Of course, those lawns may get a little brown durring a prolonged drought, but clearly, they are all irresponsible bastards. - EricKlein

2004-12-12 03:30:15   Wow. Look at the nearly lunatic-caliber rage. You know, most of SoCal's water comes from out of state. I have this strong suspicion that the fewer heating costs actually produce SOME environmental impact savings to offset. I'm not exactly sure why so many people hate LA. It is urban sprawl, but that's not just a SoCal thing. I think it may have some "classist" undertone to it. But anyway, there's not a lot of space for big lawns in your typical LA bungalo. - JaimeRaba

2004-12-12 12:06:53   I think you guys need to turn up the sensitvity on your sarcasm detectors. I don't seriously hate SoCal. In fact I really like SanDiego a lot, and it is true that most water going to areas south of LA comes from out of state. I just thought this would liven up the whole SoNorCal debate currently raging on the wiki. - DanMasiel

2004-12-12 20:11:29   Tulare Lake was a giant lake that was sucked dry from LA. It was 200 square miles, millions of years old and now it is gone. The Owens valley was raped by LA for water. I agree. Split the state and let LA suffer. They do get a lot of water from the Colorado river but if you drive down I-5 you have seen the aqueduct, all you so-cal folks know you take the water from Norcal. Hell, the Sacramento Delta supplies a good portion of the LA water system so all of L.A. should stop routing for the Lakers and start screaming GO KINGS because it is Sacramento that makes sure you don't die of thirst. - RobRoy

2004-13-12 02:40:29   Honestly, I think everyone knows that the water distribution to Southern California is problematic. But I think the financial might of that side of the state would find other water if push came to shove. I think the most important part of this discussion is the fact that Southern Californians have no ill-will towards Northern California whatsoever, but they are constantly the objects of fanatcial rants against "their" behavior, where generally these arrangements are made in Sacramento, where there's plenty of non-LA votes in the state government. So obviously, the majority of the state is complicit in this somewhat ecologically unwise water distribution. And you also should realize that the VAST majority of southern Californians feel badly about the water situation, and do much to save water. Some cities no longer permit the watering of lawns, washing of cars using non-recycled water—yes you can't wash your car in your driveway, and impose huge fines for going over allotted amounts. In Northern California, most areas don't even have water meters. So... there you go. - jr

2004-12-13 02:45:44   I believe only Sacramento has no water meters... which you're right honestly doesn't encourage conservation. Right now the big south vs north debate is over the Bay Bridge and its 4 billion dollars in cost overruns. Instead of the traditional Democrat/Republican split this time its South vs North. - JamesDawe

2004-12-13 11:53:24   In Sacramento (and arguably everywhere) votes mean nothing in the face of cold hard hollywood/defence contractor cash. Undeniably SoCal has a lot of clout, for example it seems someone is LA secretly owns Caltrans. The south can complain as much as it wants about the bay bridge, but when it come to getting roads built they are spoiled brats. Most of the freeways damaged in the Northridge Quake (1994) were rebuilt before the Cyprus freeway which was destroyed in 1989. But to south’s credit (or discredit) their transportation infrastructure is far more dependant on cars than ours is. - DanMasiel

2005-02-27 09:15:44   The problem with Southern California metros is they're not linear. So you can't just have a trane line. You need more like a train grid. So all the train systems seemingly go to nowhere. But they still bypass traffic congestion. The new thing in SoCal is to buy two cars.. one on one side of the Metro rail and one on the other.

• However, Southern California is very big on carpool lanes. They're everywhere. And very often there are 2 or 3 lanes for it. And they're enforced 24-hour, not just 7-10 and 3-7 or whatever they are out here. —JaimeRaba

2005-06-06 19:17:22   You guys are well intentioned, but sadly, you do not realize that California and a good portion of the west get water for dirt cheap. The rest of the nation pays through the nose for its water, and California and the west get it government subsidized so much we can afford to grow agriculture and house millions in subdivisions. We're all obscenely spoiled, it just happens it's a little more obvious with Southern California, what with formerly being part desert. —DanielMedinaCleghorn

2005-10-21 09:43:26   "Southern Californians have no ill-will towards Northern California whatsoever" — Maybe that's because they've heard the adage, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"? —DomenicSantangelo

2007-09-11 11:42:09   Northern Californians waste far more water than Southern Californians. If I saw people watering their lawns down south like I see in Davis, I'd get them fined for wasting water. Guys: maybe if we stop watering lawns for 14 hours straight (like at my old apartment complex), we could actually take the dam out of Hetch Hetchy. —BrentLaabs

• where are your sources? if that is actually true, then why is all the water being pumped to SoCal? -PxlAted

2007-11-06 02:13:36   Did SoCal come up with the damned adjective use of "chill"? Because if so, to hella with them. I demand reparations! —RichardYeh —RichardYeh

2007-11-06 07:30:14   The only way I would be happy still living in the same state as L.A. is if we are no longer part of the United States of Terrorism and they really wanted to secede with us. —PxlAted